Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even. What is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals, those who are after material gain.
Prof. Hopkins: Do you . . . do you think, then, that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey?
Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is . . . everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man, what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.
Prof. Hopkins: What is the solution then? What is the solution? Devotion to God . . .
Prabhupāda: First of all you know what is spirit. Then as soon as you know that you are spirit, then wherefrom the spirit comes, or wherefrom everything comes? Then it comes to the question of God. And then we understand what is our relationship with God. And then if we act according to that, then it is perfect life.
Prof. Hopkins: So that you would . . . you would see the Gītā, then, as a guide to understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual guide.
Prof. Hopkins: It starts in Chapter Two with the question of what is ātmā.
Prabhupāda: In Chapter Two it is said . . . Arjuna was lamenting that, "I shall fight, and the other party, they are my brother, so I will be sinful. So many problems will come." He was thinking like that. So Kṛṣṇa first gave him lesson that, "Why you are thinking on the bodily concept of life? You are not body. You are spirit soul." Then He gave spiritual education.
Prof. Hopkins: So you must start with what the Gītā calls sāṅkhya-yoga, then, but go on, and go on to bhakti-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga is said last. Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). People are not prepared to take the sublime lesson immediately. Then he has to go step by step. So that is the system of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prof. Hopkins: Are there other ways besides Kṛṣṇa consciousness to reach that same goal?
Prabhupāda: No.
Prof. Hopkins: Or is that the only goal?
Prabhupāda: That is only. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhi . . . if you want to know God and your relationship with God, then only through bhakti, no other. That is stated in the Bha . . . bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Otherwise you will never be able to understand.