Prabhupāda: God consciousness cannot be achieved by any third-class man. One must be the topmost first-class man. Then he can become God conscious.
Dr. Copeland: And who decides what is first class?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is decided by Kṛṣṇa. Find out this verse. Yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. (Prabhupāda is coughing) Give me water. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). Kṛṣṇa says who can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That definition is there.
Madhudviṣa:
- yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
This is from the Bhagavad-gītā. Translation: "Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated, and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination."
Prabhupāda: So this is not very ordinary thing. Pāpam, sinful life... At the present moment people are very, very much addicted to sinful life.
Dr. Copeland: Why?
Prabhupāda: Because they are less intelligent; therefore they don't care for death even. Neither they have got any idea what is going to happen after death. Formerly, people were afraid of committing sin. They knew that "After death, I will have to suffer." Now, at the present moment, the rascals are so daring, they do not care what is sin, what is going to happen next life. They do not care. That means less intelligent.
Dr. Copeland: What's going to happen to you in the next life?
Prabhupāda: My life? According to śāstra, if we have actually developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are going to Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Copeland: And you are...
Prabhupāda: I may not, but they will go. (laughter) And even it is a failure, then the next life he is guaranteed human life and very nice life. You find out this verse, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate.
Madhudviṣa:
- prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān
- uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ
- śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe
- yoga-bhraṣṭo' bhijāyate
- (BG 6.41)
"Translation: The unsuccessful yogi, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy."
Prabhupāda: Even one is failure. And one who is successful? Then? Janma karma...
Madhudviṣa:
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
"Anyone who understands the transcendental nature of My birth and activities does not again return to this material world, but comes to My supreme abode."
Prabhupāda: This is for the successful, and that is for the unsuccessful.
Dr. Copeland: And, while we're on success, how many people in India are becoming like these?
Prabhupāda: Many.
Dr. Copeland: As many as in the West, or more?
Prabhupāda: More.
Dr. Copeland: Do you have more temples there than here?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We have got very... Recently we have very big temple. There are many other temples in Vṛndāvana.