In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta the author says that in this material world, which is illusion, our, I mean to say, division that "This is good; this is bad," these are all mental speculation only. In the higher stage they see that in the material bondage nobody is in goodness; everyone is in trouble. So this material calculation that, "This is good, this is bad," and "This is happy and this is miserable," in the transcendental position they think that they are all equal. Ihaiva tair jitaḥ sargo yeṣāṁ sāmye sthitaṁ manaḥ (BG 5.19).
Now, one who is situated in such transcendental position of mind, then, ihaiva tair jitaḥ sargaḥ, then in this very body he has conquered rebirth. He has conquered rebirth. The whole position is that we want to stop rebirth, rebirth in this material world.
Now, there is a story in the Rāmāyaṇa. In the Rāmāyaṇa there is a story. When Mahārāja Daśaratha . . . Daśaratha was the father of Lord Rāma. When Rāma was a boy, say about ten years, twelve years old, or about fifteen or sixteen years old . . . he was simply a boy. Now, one sage, his name is . . . he's very famous sage. He came to Mahārāja Daśaratha, asking the help of Rāmacandra for killing one demon in the forest. Because the sages used to remain in forest, they were . . . that demon was creating some disturbance, so he approached the king. King is the lord of both the city and the forest. So he prayed that, "Please send your son and help me."
Now, at that time this king inquired from that sage, aihisthaṁ yat taṁ punar-janma-jayāya (Rāmayana). Now, just like in our worldly affairs we, for gentleman's etiquette, we ask, "How are you? How things are going on?" now, here the king was asking the sage, aihisthaṁ yat taṁ punar-janma-jayāya: "You are . . . you have . . . you have become mendicant. You have become sage just to conquer over death." Conquer over death. Aihisthaṁ yat taṁ punar-janma-jayāya. So that is this highest knowledge. Highest knowledge is to conquer over the death.
This sort of idea . . . of course, now it has become a story, but to conquer over the death, that was the main problem in . . . at least in the former Vedic civilization days. Everyone, any highest, I mean to say, highly situated person in knowledge, his main business was how to conquer death. Now, at the present moment that question has become subordinate thing, how to conquer death. "Let death there be. So long death does not come, let me enjoy and have sense gratification." That has become the standard of civilization at the present moment. But real problem is how to conquer death.
They think . . . the scientists say: "Oh, death is . . . death cannot be conquered. Set aside. Set aside. Now let us prepare something, atomic bomb, so that death can be accelerated." This is scientific advancement. Death is there, and the problem . . . formerly, people used to think of how conquering death, but at the present moment they are thinking accelerating death, and they call it advancement of knowledge, advancement of science. So this is going on.