Jesus (Conv. 1975)

Expressions researched:
"Christ" |"Christ's" |"Jesus Christ" |"Jesus christ's" |"Jesus" |"Jesus's"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he can accept that man is born perfect, but that his development is imperfect, but he cannot accept that man is born imperfect.

Prabhupāda: No, that we don't say. Therefore man is advised to associate with perfect so that he can keep his perfectness.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says, "The problem is there are so many millions of people, but there are so few perfect persons."

Prabhupāda: One perfect person is sufficient to teach thousands of imperfect persons.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says he thinks you are right because the example is Buddha and Christ, and so many people follow them.

Prabhupāda: They are perfect, but the followers do not follow the instructions. That does not mean they are imperfect.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He has understood from Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says that "As you approach Me, I present Myself." So in that sense can this movement be compared to also the consciousness of Christ, Christ consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is no difference between consciousness of Christ or Kṛṣṇa provided we follows them. Christ is speaking as son of Godhead, and Kṛṣṇa is speaking as God, so there is no difference. The truth—the father speaks or the son speaks—the truth is the same.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He understands that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of the mind. Now he requests that you explain to the people how one can achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness living in one's own home with one's... In other words for those who are outside the temple, they have their jobs and they live in their houses, how can they achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: It is very easy. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So nobody knows Bible here? I am not very much conversant with Bible. But so far I know that Christ says that "I am the son of God." We can understand. So is there any difference? God says or Christ says that "I am the son of God." So the father is different. The father can say "I am," and the son also can say, "I am," but everyone is "I." But what is the relation between this "I" and that "I." That is wanted to know.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): I am a particle of God.

Prabhupāda: That is this. Therefore I am particle; He is whole. Therefore difference. When God says, "I am," and I say, "I am," there is difference. I am particle "I am," and He is whole "I am." (laughter) Another, a millionaire says, "I am," and his servant says, "I am," but both the "I's" are same? So God is great. He says, "I am." He is great "I am." And I say, "I am." I am small "I am." Therefore this "I am" and that "I am" is different.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Lady: I agree. I am just mentioning that "I am" is the name of God, and then you add the adjective, and He will be established unto you.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. "I am" is not the name of God. That is identification. That is the identification. God can say, "I am," you can say, "I am," but that does not mean you are God.

Lady: Jesus Christ said that if you establish what you are after you say "I am"...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, everyone is saying, "I am." Everyone is saying in ordinary dealing, "I am." That is there. But that does (not) mean different "I am" is the same.

Lady: You decree it. You decree what you are. You decree. With "I am," you decree. You make a decree.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that decree is already there. Just like in the Bible, "God is great." You are not great. Therefore you "I am" and God "I am" different.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: God means controller. God is not name. Just like the president, Mr. Ford. That is name, and president is the controller. So every controller has got name. So why the supreme controller will not have any name? That is ignorance.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She's saying that Christ said that "I am the way."

Prabhupāda: Well, every guru is the way to approach God. That's a fact. But he has got his name, Christ. So why do you deny this name? "Christ says,"—that means either you take him anything, but he has a name, Christ.

Lady: No.

Prabhupāda: No? What is this? (laughter) That is your conception. It is not Bible's conception. Bible says the son of God is Christ. You can create by mental concoction anything, but if you refer to the Bible, the name is Christ. Everyone says, all Christians says, all Christians says, "the Jesus Christ." Why do you deny it?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Māyāvāda. She says that everyone has the Christ within him.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): If we agree with Buddhist consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, no, whatever consciousness may be, I say that in the Bible it is said that son of God is Christ. His name is Christ. How you can deny the name? No, no, that is their interpretation, "Christ means 'I am.' " They want to interpret in their own way. There is name. How can you deny it?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He is saying that you have said that we have a material body and also a spiritual body. So he wants to know if the spirit and matter are born simultaneously or if the matter is born, the material body is born, and later the spirit comes.

Prabhupāda: No, from spirit the matter has come out. Just like God said, "Let there be creation." So God was there and creation later on. So God is spirit and creation is matter.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3) (Trappist monk): There's three of us here that are monks from Connear(?), Trappist monks, and you use Hare Kṛṣṇa as a way to God consciousness, while in our Christian tradition we use the name Jesus and we repeat it constantly and try to become conscious of him.

Prabhupāda: Jesus, did he say... Jesus Christ, did he say that Jesus is the name of God?

Guest (3): Well, that's what Christians believe, yeah.

Prabhupāda: No, is there anything mentioned in the Bible that Jesus is the name of God?

Guest (3): I'm not sure.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (4): Did Jesus say that he is God? Jesus isn't the name of God. He said, "Son of God, son of man."

Guest (3): No, he said God. There's three places that Jesus said he's God, in Hebrews and John, and two places in...

Guest (5): "I and the father are one," is in John.

Guest (4): Oh, the father and the son is one. Of course it is one. So are we, because we are all children of God. God must be in us, otherwise we couldn't exist.

Guest (3): Of course.

Guest (4): I am not denying anything, but I'm saying that the meaning might be, that "God and Jesus is one," is in a similar way that I and God is one.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. That is fact.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3): Well, again it depends upon the belief of each individual.

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus is described as son of God. Do you deny that?

Guest (3): Definitely, he is definitely son of God just as you and I are. But at the same time, as Christians... Of course it's a matter of belief.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The son and the father, they are the same because son is born out of father. So how he can be different? In that sense it is one.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, when one comes to God consciousness. And the relationship is "God is great; we are subordinate." Just like the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained. Although the father and the son of the same quality, still, the relationship is the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained.

Guest (5): That's, of course, not the orthodox Christian interpretation, that's supposed to be. It's very clear by the time the decrees were worked out that Jesus is not a creature. He's incarnate God.

Guest (6): You say that we are creatures, and we are subordinate to God, and I can understand that. Christ was not created.

Prabhupāda: Yes, none of us are created. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā...

Guest (6): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people... In other words you say we are co-eternal with the father just as Christ is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityānām. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3): ...can tie in with the idea of the spirit being eternal in Christ, and I believe Christ himself said that we have all been with him from the beginning.

Guest (1): And there is no beginning. According to the ideas, one group of science data, there is no beginning, and therefore there is no end.

Guest (5): It's the alpha and the omega then. Swami, do you see a difference or a conflict between being a devotee of Jesus and a devotee of Kṛṣṇa? May one be both?

Prabhupāda: A devotee means, real devotee means, he has no purpose for material gain. That is real devotee. Now we have to see what kind of devotee he is. There are two kinds of devotees: with purpose and without purpose. The "without purpose" devotee is pure devotee, and "with purpose" devotee, they are material devotee.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: First of all, killing is sinful. Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." That is sinful, it doesn't matter whether you kill cow or goat or anything. But from economic point of view, cow is very important because it supplies milk. And milk preparation, we Indians know how many you can get nice milk preparation. Dahi, rābṛi, this, that, Huh? But how nutritious, how palatable. And that is good for human being. First thing is that why you should kill if you have got sufficient food, eh? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Eh? Vegetables, fruits, then food grains, then sugar, everything is there sufficient. At least we Indian, we know we can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparations, nice palatable, enjoyable. Why should you go to kill the animal?

Guest (2): Well scientists claim that meat ah...

Prabhupāda: Scientists, first of all we have rejected that.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Just like Christian religion, what it is teaching?

Professor Fenton: Christian? It is the humanization of man, to trust in Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why trust Lord Jesus Christ?

Professor Fenton: Because he is the root to reality, the truth.

Prabhupāda: That means he's son of God, is it not?

Professor Fenton: Yes, but I personally am not that orthodox. That is the orthodox teaching.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Teaching must be orthodox, otherwise what is the value? If the teaching changes, that is not very good.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister, or daughter. It doesn't matter." This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. (break) ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. (break) "...by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: "Poor Christ, he has to suffer for all the sinful activities, and he wanted to save us from sin, gave his injunction. That we shall not care." This is Christian religion. And therefore they have to close down this hypocrisy. (break) That Melbourne meeting, some of you were with me? No. In Melbourne I was invited by some, many priests. Twice I was invited. The first meeting I am speaking. So there was a good meeting, all respectable priests. So they asked me that "Why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" So I asked them that "What you have not done?" (laughter) So they were not very much pleased. But I, in the open meeting, I said, "What you have not done? You have done all sinful activities. Therefore you have to close down this hypocrisy now." That was my answer, "What you have not done?" Now they are sorry, "What we have done?" That is called ignorance. They have done everything all sinful. They do not know that is sinful. (break) ...Bible, "Thou shall not kill," and they will not obey. That is sinful. Everything is there clearly, Ten Commandments, but they will not do that. Willful sinners. One may act sinfully, unaware. But they are willfully sinners. They know this is sin, and still they are doing.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Christian teaching is good. It is giving idea of God. But who is following Christian teaching? That is the problem. Nobody is following. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christian people are very expert in killing. Do you admit or not?

Reporter: I admit.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Then who is a Christian? If one does not follow the instruction of Christ, then would you call him a Christian?

Reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That is the problem.

Reporte: Is there any reason why you teach your followers the Bhagavad-gītā rather than the Bible?

Prabhupāda: The teaching is the same. The teaching is the same. What Lord Jesus Christ taught and what we are... (aside:) Aiye. The teaching is the same. But who is following? That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: ...and preach, and some will join.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is actually happening.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, has there been an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa outside India, somewhere else in another part of the world? Or does He always comes in India?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaktyāveṣa avatāra, somebody empowered by Him, not Kṛṣṇa Himself. Just like Christ. Christ is also empowered incarnation. Śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Mohammed is also. Anyone who is preaching about God is empowered incarnation. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nāhi kṛṣṇa nāma-pracāra. That is there in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (break)

Devotee (2): ...that your initiated disciples had some relationship with Lord Caitanya when He was on this earth?

Prabhupāda: Everyone has relationship, all living entities.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So in the dictionary it is stated, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god." He is not a Hindu god; He is God. But He appeared in India. He remained in the Vedic culture. Lord Buddha was also Hindu. And he was in Vedic culture. Later on he spread his own mission. That is also Hindu culture, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. Lord Buddha... keśava dhṛta-buddha. The same Kṛṣṇa, His powerful avatāra, Lord Buddha. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We offer our prayers to Lord Buddha. Christ was also for twelve years in India. He... Christ, the word Christ and kristo, there is similarity. He also propagated love of God. That is Kṛṣṇa. So we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you are all Indians. It is your duty to see that the movement is pushed forward. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā: "By your life, by your money, by your good intelligence and by your words." Our mission is to spread the words of Kṛṣṇa. We don't manufacture anything. Why should we manufacture? Everything is there perfectly.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: And this Greek work is kristo. There is a word in Greek. It is called kristo. And Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Krsta. And that kristo word means "love," if I am not wrong, that Greek word. And from that kristo the word Christ has come.

Ambassador: Karitas(?), yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is some connection of Kṛṣṇa with these things. What is that?

Ambassador: There are so many parallels between Kṛṣṇa and Christ.

Prabhupāda: So many.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Yoga student: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.

Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Muhammad?

Yoga student: He presented himself as a man, as considered by Muslims as the perfect man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: The disciple of God.

Yoga student: And he was the perfect expression of the divine manifestation in human terms. He was not a divine figure as Christ or Kṛṣṇa. He was simply a man, and who was the mouthpiece of the divine word.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Allah akbar?

Yoga student: It means God, the greatest.

Prabhupāda: Greatest.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is very good. That is our philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumārtho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says, "That is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him." That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaiṣṇava dharma in a crude form like the Christian. So we can amalgamate them all if they are sane men. I suggested that there are many churches vacant. If they give us these churches we shall install Deity—Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva—and along with them we shall worship Lord Jesus Christ also. Similarly, we can do Muhammad. There is no harm. But they are against this Deity worship, eh? Mohammedans?

Yoga student: Yes, they are. That sort of expression. And yet, amongst the Sufi poets...

Prabhupāda: Deity is also expression, form is also expression, but they do not understand it.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest (2): I thought when some people say that it wasn't very important to know whether Kṛṣṇa was living or not, they talk to Kṛṣṇa as a historical fact, as an individual, as a person who lived within the framework of time and space. Kṛṣṇa as an individual, as a historical person, might not even important, as they said Aśoka(?) or Christ or...

Prabhupāda: (Aside to devotee:) You come here. I do not follow the accent, you hear and tell.

Guest: What would be important was Kṛṣṇa teachings. One must, could not be confined to any one period of time. He is incarnation of God and somebody who was talking for the truth and in the name of the truth, and... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest: There is some our ācāryas. How about Christ or Muhammad and Zarathustra, all these people?

Prabhupāda: They accept God, that's all. But God is here explained. They cannot give an explicit idea of God. But here is God speaking personally. They have got "There is God," "God is great." That's nice. But who is that God, how He is great, that they have to learn further. Simply a vague idea, that "God is great..." One should know how He is great and who is that great. That is perfection. So that is explained here. They accept God. That is... They are also our brother because they accept God. They are not atheist. Atheists, they don't accept God. "There is no God"—that is atheist. But here they are theist. They accept God. They want to please God. They go to the church, go to the mosque, offer prayer. Prayer is also bhakti, devotional service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ... (SB 7.5.23). Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam..., arcanaṁ vandanam. Vandanam. The Christian way or the Muslim way, to offer... The Muslim offer obeisances and offer prayer. So that is also bhakti. The Christian also do that, so that is also bhakti. And they accept God; we accept God. So there is no difference. But the only point is who is that God.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest: Do you know, sir, that it is exactly the same way of thinking which we have in our people who believe to Muhammad? They think that the teaching of Muhammad is the most superior one. And others... Of course, Muslims do believe to others' religions, to Moses, to Christ, and so on. They have the same way of thinking. They think that they are elementary stages...

Prabhupāda: The point is... Yes.

Guest: ...and Muhammad's teaching is supposed to be the superior one. So everybody thinks that his way or his way of thinking, his theory, his religion is the most superior one.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Guest: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.

Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Mohammed?

Guest: He presented himself as a man, was considered by Muslims to be the perfect man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: And ah, he was the perfect expression of the divine manifestation in human terms. He was not a divine figure as Christ or Kṛṣṇa. He was a, ah, simply a man, and ah, he was the mouthpiece of the ah, divine word.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Allah?

Guest: It means God, the greatest.

Prabhupāda: Greatest.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy. sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumartho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says that is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him. That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaisnalam in crude form, like the Christians (indistinct) if they are sane man. I suggested that there are many churches vacant, if they give us these churches, we shall install Deity, Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva, and along with them we can worship Jesus Christ. Similarly, we can do Mohammed. But they are against this Deity worship.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: I met one... I was traveling about three months ago in India. I met one Christian on the train. So we began to discuss the śāstra. So I mentioned some of the arguments in reference to the Bible, that Christ was speaking...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) No, no. Where that covering? Where is it?

Pañcadraviḍa: I said that Christ was speaking basically to an uneducated public, the fishermen, etc... So then this man, he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. But," he said, "You're..."

Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?

Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."

Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Trivikrama: Their point is... Well, one of their points is that if Christ was actually the son of God, why didn't he talk about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Trivikrama: If Christ was the son of God, the good son, how is that he didn't, he never mentioned Kṛṣṇa by name? Sometimes they criticize us like that: "Why is there no mention of Kṛṣṇa in the Christian Bible?"

Prabhupāda: He might not have mentioned, but why there are twelve names in the Bible?

Pañcadraviḍa: That's Old Testament. That's not Christ...

Prabhupāda: The name is there.

Acyutānanda: And Christ, Prabhupāda has...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The point is that just like when you're...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, one should be answered.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: In India Christians say that Jesus Christ is God.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They're trying to substitute... In the beginning of the Bible it says that "In the beginning was the word, and the word was God." And modern-day translations, they have substituted the word "Christ" for "the word." So it says, "In the beginning was Christ, and Christ was God." So they're trying to make, they're trying in that way to make Jesus God. And that is the name, because they don't know what is that word.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prajāpati: We can understand this...

Prabhupāda: That is again another adulteration.

Prajāpati: It is adulteration, but the tendency is there because Kṛṣṇa is a person. Because God is a person, they, everyone, wants to worship God as a person. It's the only way God can be worshiped. So because they do not know Kṛṣṇa, they make Jesus God so they can worship him as a person.

Prabhupāda: That is also good. But do they do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Trivikrama: They say, "You cannot. It is not possible. Only you have to accept Christ. Then you will be saved."

Acyutānanda: As Lord Zetland.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: Lord Zetland said, "It is not possible..."

Trivikrama: It is not possible.

Acyutānanda: ...to give up meat and illicit..."

Prabhupāda: Then? Where is Christian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are. We are the Christians.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they say then, "You can't do any of these things, so you have to accept Christ in your heart."

Acyutānanda: That was my challenge, that "We are doing them better than all of you, so you... That's..."

Prabhupāda: No, if you keep God or Christ within your heart, then your heart will be purified. That means you are cheating.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You are all cheaters, not Christians, but cheaters. You do not keep in the heart Christ's name or God's name, but you keep your own ideas. Therefore you think it is impossible. Otherwise, your heart would have been cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti (suhṛt satām)

(SB 1.2.17)

Anyone who is keeping Kṛṣṇa within his heart, he becomes cleansed of all dirty things. And because the dirty things are there, that means he is not keeping.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got two process. One process is chanting. Another process: read books. That is also chanting.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: One argument that the Christians have... When we tell them that we accept Lord Jesus, so they say that "You haven't accepted Jesus into your heart." We say, "We're following the teachings of Jesus." And they say, "But you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart," that "You're not a follower of Jesus. And that's the lacking qualification."

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to convince them. (break) We may not keep the Christ in heart, but even you do not keep Christ by your dealings. You are simply disobeying the orders. Then how you can be a Christian?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Jesus says that in Matthew. He says that "Many will come to me and say, 'Lord, Lord,' that 'We cured the sick in your name, and we cast out demons in your name,' " and Jesus said that "When they come I will say, 'Get away from me. I know you not, for you failed to do the will of my Father.' " Even though they're claiming to be Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamal-kṛṣṇa: The drain inspectors?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise—everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇam (SB 1.1.2). Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."

Trivikrama: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.

Pañcadraviḍa: Who was cheating?

Prabhupāda: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: Jesus Christ only lived for 36 years.

Prabhupāda: Who's caring for any tree who lives for five thousand years? If that is your point, to live long is a great credit, there are already so many living entities who live long, longer than you.

Devotee: Well they don't... they may be living a long time but they don't have the same intelligence how to use their life span...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...the dogs also got intelligence, the hogs also got intelligence. The intelligence which you are claiming, that is all discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is said yes they are living, but you don't see that breathing. So then the vastra, the bellow, it is breathing. "Waa, waa, waa, waa." It is breathing in the (indistinct) and it is (indistinct), the vastra. It is breathing (indistinct). Here they are living but you don't see they have any sex enjoyment (indistinct). The dogs and hogs, they are having very good sex enjoyment, even on the street, without any restriction, and begetting three dozen children in a year.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. All bogus. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo. Only religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Amogha: They think that if they sin it's all right, because man is imperfect. So they think we should believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Every animal is imperfect, but man—animal can become perfect. If he likes. So it is very important life.

Śrutakīrti: They say it's not possible to become perfect, that that's saying "I can become God."

Prabhupāda: What?

Śrutakīrti: They say only God can be perfect, that we cannot become perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot become as perfect as God, but near about.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: For protection. Not for eating. Rascals. Bible does not say that you kill animals. Then Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. His commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." If he allows killing, then why does he say, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then you prove that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. Are you following a hypocrite? Nonsense.

Paramahaṁsa: So we understand. We will stop eating meat, but we can still eat fish and eggs. Because there are plenty of fish and plenty of eggs.

Prabhupāda: That is also better than killing animals.

Amogha: Jesus also gave fish to the people in one part of the Bible.

Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?

Śrutakīrti: But he meant kill other people.

Prabhupāda: No. That is your interpretation, rascal's interpretation.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He has got the human body. He also... These birds are catching fish. He does not know that he has got other business.

Amogha: At the school, the students say, "Why not eat fish? Jesus was passing out fish, in the Bible. And we all catch fish. We like to catch fish." And then we tell them about meat. So, they think that we are loosing a great pleasure, that we cannot eat meat.

Prabhupāda: You tell them, that you will be very merry—that's all right. But do you want to stop these merry affairs all of a sudden? Ask them, what will they reply?

Amogha: They'll say "No, we don't want to stop."

Prabhupāda: Then, the nature will stop it.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. Of course, it is very strong words. That Western people they are claiming very civilized, but I have got objection. Therefore I have come to the West. Because, for example, the animal-killing. The Western people are mostly Christians. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said that "Thou shall not kill." But the result was that two thousand years passed, but the people of the Western countries, they are still killing. So when they have accepted Christianity? What is your answer?

Carol: But the actual original scriptures aren't enacted in Western life.

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Now, after taking instruction from Christ, first of all they killed Christ. That means they could not understand the instruction. Therefore their first business was to kill the instructor. And after that, two thousand years passed, still they are killing. So when they have accepted the teachings of Lord Christ? Can you answer this?

Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.

Prabhupāda: This is practical. You are maintaining huge slaughterhouses, regular killing. So, you took instruction from Christ, "Thou shall not kill." You first of all killed him, and then the killing process is going on among the animals, and declaring wars every now and then. So the killing business is going on regularly. In your regular life also. You are maintaining big, big slaughterhouses. Then when you accepted the instruction of Christ? That I want to know.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, my... You just explain.

Amogha: He's asking you when did this civilization actually accept the teachings of Christ?

Carol: When have they? Not overall at all, only in small pockets. Never overall.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are claiming that you are Christian? Just like you are having cross. That is the sign that you killed Christ. The cross is the killing symbol of Christ.

Carol: This is the resurrection symbol.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. (laughter)

Carol: But it's not only Christian symbol...

Prabhupāda: But many, many priestly order, they carry the cross. Cross is the sign when Lord Jesus Christ was killed.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That means how you killed Lord Jesus Christ. That is the sign. That reminds you that you killed. You accuse the Jewish people "They killed," but you are also killing. Although you are claiming Christian. Therefore I want to know—you are a learned scholar—when you abided by the order of Lord Jesus Christ? That is my question. When?

Amogha: When did you abide by the orders of Jesus Christ?

Carol: When did I?

Prabhupāda: Every one of you, Western countries. And if you have abided by the order of Jesus Christ, then why you are systematically killing? The order is, "Thou shall not kill."

Carol: It reminds me of the Gītā, you know? Where Arjuna is on the battlefield about to commit an organized sort of killing against his relatives.

Prabhupāda: No, two thousand years passed, but you could not accept the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. And you are all claiming that you are Christian. When did you accept Christianity? That is my question. Because you have disobeyed the order of Christ. So when did you accept? Two thousand years passed.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: The question of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot understand the principles of life and morality, Jesus Christ's instruction that "Thou shall not kill." So how you become philosopher?

Carol: How is the love to be understood? Between people or through inner sort of communication with a higher self?

Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda said that you could not understand the simple instruction, so where is the question of understanding philosophy? Not love. Philosophy.

Prabhupāda: You have no love, because you are accustomed to kill. Philosophy begins when you know that everyone is part and parcel of God, and everyone should be given the full facilities to live without injuring anyone for one's personal benefit. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). A paṇḍita, philosopher, means learned scholar. Not fools and rascals can become philosopher. Those who are learned scholar, thoughtful, they can become philosopher.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are giving-here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is the perfect person. You take. But you don't follow Him. Just like I began with. Jesus Christ is perfect, but you don't follow him.

Carol: Mmm.

Prabhupāda: You don't like to follow him. You follow Darwin. Whose fault it is? The perfect person's fault, or your fault? You don't like to hear from the perfect person. You want to hear from a humbug bogus person. That is the defect. (long silence)

Carol: Thank you. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: And in the record album he has given this picture. So you are intelligent girl, you study about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will benefit you. The anthropology you may get some degree, adoration. What is the benefit? Jaya. (Carol leaves) They enquire why I have come to the West. If I enquire that two thousand year ago you have been taught that "Thou shall not kill," and your business is only to kill. I have come to enquire from you, "What is your answer?" How you have become civilized, that you cannot accept one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are declaring yourself as Christian and civilized. This is my question. Answer it. In two thousand years, first of all you began killing Christ. Never mind, still, two thousand years past, you could not stop killing? You could not accept the first instruction. What kind of civilized man?

Jayadharma: Sometimes they say, Prabhupāda, that Jesus meant just...

Prabhupāda: Meant?

Jayadharma: ...just human beings.

Prabhupāda: All right. That means you are killer of human beings. THat means, in the beginning, you are all killers of human beings. And therefore you killed Jesus Christ. That is not very good qualification. Killer of human being... He said "Thou shall not kill." Where he says that "Thou shall not kill human beings"? That is your interpretation.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: That's obvious he meant only human beings, because he himself was killing animals.

Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?

Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?

Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.

Paramahaṁsa: He also said that.

Śrutakīrti: Where does he say that?

Paramahaṁsa: He said that in the (inaudible). Yes. The Bible says that and Christ also spoke that, that the grasses of the fields and the fruits of the trees shall be your meat.

Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?

Śrutakīrti: Well, Christ enforced it.

Paramahaṁsa: It was accepted by him as one of the rules.

Śrutakīrti: Christ's greatest commandment was to love God above all things. So if one is to love God, one must follow His instructions.

Prabhupāda: Who is following the instructions?

Śrutakīrti: We are.

Prabhupāda: But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals?

Śrutakīrti: He was against that.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But in one place they say Christ encouraged fishermen. Because he came and the fishermen were fishing on one side of the boat, and Christ came along and said, "You are fishing on the wrong side of the boat." He said, "Put your nets on the other side, and you will get more fish." An they did that and they got huge amounts of fish. And so they were encouraged in their fish-eating in this way.

Gaṇeśa: Jesus also said to the fisherman, "Give up you fishing and I will make you fishers of men." He said this to his disciples.

Prabhupāda: Then on the whole it comes that his instructions are sometimes contradictory.

Paramahaṁsa: Not only that but they say that... Usually when it comes right down to it, the Bible has gone through so many interpretations and so many changes in the last two thousand years that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very difficult.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: One thing about the Christian religion is that through the last two thousand years, Christ's original teachings may have been good teachings, may have been potent preaching, but because there were no potent preachers to carry on the preaching, therefore the whole thing has been lost. But if there are potent preachers to continue reestablishing and establishing the principles,...

Prabhupāda: So how you'll find, if everything is now changed? Where you will get the right information?

Paramahaṁsa: That's the problem. That's why there are so many hundreds of branches of Christianity, literally hundreds. So many divisions of Christianity. Some people accept this, some people accept this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: He says that once you told Madhudviṣa Swami that you are the best cheater because you are taking away all our māyā and making us devotees.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That kind of cheating is very good. (pause) Christ also spoke about nivṛtti-mārga. "Thou shall not kill." Because they were practiced to kill, and still they are practiced to killing. The first nivṛtti, "Thou shall not kill." The same thing, "Thou shall not covet."

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the Bible..., we accept that as scripture, but is it all correct, or has it been mistranslated or...?

Prabhupāda: It is being misinterpreted still now. That means it was violated from the very beginning. And they are violating. "Thou shall not kill"; he is killing. That's all. That is the position.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: All Christian. Jesus himself, he kicked the moneylenders out of the temple.

Amogha: I was talking to one Buddhist monk, and I asked him, "What is your actual practice? What is your daily schedule?" And he said, "Well, we get up around sunrise and go out with our begging bowls and fill it up and then come back at about 11:00 to the temple. And then we sit down and eat everything in the begging bowl. And then we take rest." I said, "What about the rest of the day?" And he said, "Well, that's all free, open time."

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are distributing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you explain that it's best to start from the beginning and go gradually. So...

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere you can see.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Practically speaking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are giving us the essence of all the previous ācāryas' books in your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) "No, no, Jesus Christ is son of God. He was... (break) If you don't worship him, you will go to hell." So they enquired, "What is that hell?" He began to... "It is very dark and moist and so on, so on..." They did not reply because they are working in the mine. So this is the position. This is the position. People are kept in so much darkness, they do not know what is hell, what is heaven, what is God, what is misery. They do not mind. They are accustomed to all these things. There is another story like that, a Bengali story. One man said, "Oh, you are drinking, you will go to hell." So he explained what is hell: "It is a miserable life." "My father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "And my mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go." In this way whole, the family. "Then where it is hell? It is heaven. Because the father is there, mother is there, brother is there. Everyone, we are going... So where is hell?" This is the... "Even in hell, if we are all there, then where it is hell? It is heaven."

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But I want to live. There are... India, eighty percent people, they are vegetarian. They are living very nicely. They are eating sufficient food grain and fruits and milk and milk product. God has given us so many. So why should we maintain slaughterhouse, killing other animals? So a first-class man will not do that. First-class man will think that "I want to eat something to keep myself fit. If by natural products I can keep myself fit, why shall I kill another animal?" And every religion teaches that. Now take in your Christian religion. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouse. So this is the condition of the society. How you can become happy? You are violating the rules and regulation of religion and God. You cannot become... Nature will disturb in so many ways. That is nature's business.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He doesn't know that "I may become a tree like this." Then he must be... Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities. And he doesn't care for sinful activities. He got the human form of body, he doesn't care. Saintly persons, they are coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Buddha or Christ. They are warning, "You do not do this." No, they will do it. So who is responsible for his sufferings? He is responsible. And so long he has got this short duration of life, fifty or sixty years or utmost hundred years, he is thinking, "I am free. Whatever I want, I can do," and making life risky. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He is not independent. He knows that. Still, he will declare independence and suffer. This is the position.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: I telephoned that geographer yesterday to talk to him, and he said that "What Swamiji said was true, but how can...?" He said, "It will be very difficult to apply because most people, they are not interested." But he says it was very... He could understand that was true, what you were saying. He may also come again to talk more.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let him come. Let him come. People may take or not take, but he is inquisitive gentleman. Let him understand. People... We are preaching. Who is taking? Mass of people, they are not taking it. But still, we are doing that. That is our duty. People may take or not take, but a God's servant must speak the truth. Just like Jesus Christ. He was crucified. Nobody took his words. But he did it. If people would have accepted his philosophy, then why he was crucified by the judges? It was done by the judges, Roman judges. So this is the position of the world. Socrates was killed because he said that there is soul. This is the defect of Western civilization. They want vox populi.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But in the Western countries this is the disease, vox populi. Socrates said there is soul, and he was killed because vox populi was against. Christ was killed because vox populi was against. This is the defect of the Western civilization. During the lifetime of Christ, nobody accepted. When he was killed, or crucified, then the other saintly persons, they gave their experience, what they learned from Jesus Christ. Christ could not give any words. Some sporadic words were there, and the Bible was made on that basis. Actually, the Bible is not the word, directly words of Christ.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): Even his disciples denounced him when they were going to crucify him. They said, "Oh, I do not know Jesus."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...they are after zeros. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sa..., śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitam means zero. (break) Advancement of civilization is zero. If you add many thousands of zero, does the value increases?

Amogha: No.

Prabhupāda: It remains zero.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But Jesus said: "Love thy brother as thyself." So if we love our brother...

Prabhupāda: That we are loving. We are giving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is loving, real loving. We are giving him eternal life, eternal bliss. Unless we love them, why we are taking so much trouble? The preacher must love the people. Otherwise why he is taking? He can do it for himself at home. Why he is taking so much trouble? Why in eighty years old I have come here if I do not love? So who can love better than a preacher? He loves even the animals. Therefore they are preaching, "Don't take meat." Do they love the animals, rascals? They are eating, and they love their country, that's all. Nobody loves. It is simply sense gratification. If somebody loves, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's all. All rascals. They are after their own sense gratification, and they will put a signboard, "I love everyone." This is their business. And fools are accepting, "Oh, this man is very philanthropic." He does not love any man. He loves only senses. That's all. The servant of the senses, that's all.

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." They killed Christ. This is the position.

Amogha: When Buddha came, did most people follow Him?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: And they stopped their (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes. In their religion animal-killing is strictly forbidden.

Amogha: Did Śaṅkara, did he physically force the Buddhists out of India, by force?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Just like Jesus, we say "son of God." So...

Jesuit: That's the second person made man, become human, becomes a man.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is very important, but He is son, a very important son. Just like father may have many sons, but one of them may be very important, very good assistant to the father so Christ is like that. He is son of God, very important, He's helping God coming down to reclaim these fallen souls that "Come to God, why you are suffering here?" Son, He's very faithful and important son. But the others, they are also sons, but they have forgotten God. Therefore they are suffering. So sometimes He sends His son or His devotee and sometimes He comes Himself, that is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: It seems to me that God sent Jesus to tell the whole world...

Prabhupāda: God says that, that "You don't desire anything, you simply become faithful to Me." That is God's desire. But we are not abiding by the orders of God. We want, we desire so many things. Just like, don't mind if I say, that God says, "Thou shalt not kill." But we are killing. We are violating. Their tendency is there so we must suffer for that.

Jesuit: Aḥ, true, sure. If we know that we're doing wrong.

Prabhupāda: Because we are not abiding by the order of God, therefore we must be prepared to suffer. So I, if I kill you then you kill me. Then going on, then I'll kill you, you kill me, go on. Life for life. You have no right to kill but if you kill then you'll be killed.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Do you know the prayer that the Russians use, the Jesus prayer?

Prabhupāda: Any prayer. God is one. Either you pray in a different way, I'll pray in a different way, it doesn't matter.

Jesuit: I know that but I want to know do you know what is known as the Jesus prayer which the Russians use?

Devotee: No, he doesn't know.

Jesuit: It seems to me that you chant, don't you, Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: That is a prayer, it's a rhythmic chant.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is prayer.

Prabhupāda: Now that is a form of prayer and the Jesus prayer, would you do the same? You would either chant it...? (break)

Jesuit: Aḥ, well, maybe from the point of your giving glory to God, no difference.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is spiritual, that is spiritual. To give glory to God, that is spiritual. And otherwise, what do you think of this materiality of this chanting? Chanting is not material. Chanting is spiritual.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Body and soul different.

Jesuit: But that's the point I was trying to make, that you have a gradation in your prayer of..., in the Jesus prayer, in which you speak and you can hear the noise, chanting. You might say something like this: (Sings softly) Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. Now, that's a chanting, a singing, and it sums up everything I believe in, say, in the word Jesus. But then there can be the other where there's no sound is heard, but I'm still thinking it in my mind.

Prabhupāda: Similarly you can think of Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Sings) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Same thing. Where is the difference? There is no difference.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That and many others, they also do that. They also worship Jesus Christ. That is... (break) We have no disrespect for anyone.

Dr. Copeland: And you've been rather successful in institutionalizing your religion, getting a large number of temples constructed or built or taken over, and a large number of followers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Copeland: Why do you think you are so successful?

Prabhupāda: I don't think I am successful, but people say.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Dr. Copeland: Mmm, we're not really arguing about the same thing. I'm saying that if, say, somebody says Christ in the Bible says something...

Prabhupāda: You must say that "Christ says like this." That is honesty.

Dr. Copeland: Yeah, okay.

Prabhupāda: If you say, "No, no, what Christ says it is wrong. What I am saying, it is right." Then it is dishonest.

Dr. Copeland: Mohammed says...

Prabhupāda: Anyone. Mohammed says something. You have to say, "Mohammed says this." You cannot say, "What Mohammed says, it is not right. What I say it is right." You cannot say that. That is dishonest. You say in your own words. Why should you bring Mohammed or Kṛṣṇa or Christ to say your words? Did they come to support your views?

Dr. Copeland: No, I don't do that.

Prabhupāda: No, you do not do that. You do not do that. You will see Dr. Radhakrishnan says. When this, he is making comment on it, he said, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto māṁ namaskuru, and Dr. Radha..., he says "not to Kṛṣṇa." How he is misleading people!

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is the way. It is going on. So nāsau munir yasya... So if I take the opinion of one muni and another muni, another muni, then where is the real view? Therefore it is said mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, what they have done, we have to follow that. So our principle is that, that we are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mahājana, a great personality. Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. You follow some mahājana, great personality. Don't take opinion, this man, that man, this man, this man. Then you will be bewildered. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So you have to follow one great personality, ācārya. That is also recommended in the Bhā... ācāryopāsanam, following the ācārya. So we have got recognized ācārya, just like you said, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Or Śaṅkarācārya even. You follow one ācārya, like Christians, they follow Christ, ācārya.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then what do they mean by that liberation?

Madhudviṣa: Salvation means to be saved by Jesus. Saved by Jesus means to...

Prabhupāda: So what is the platform of that saving?

Madhudviṣa: To go to heaven, spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: There is idea of spiritual world?

Madhudviṣa: Well, there is kingdom of God, but they have vague idea. They say no man has seen God, nor has he seen His kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Then how Jesus saw?

Śrutakīrti: Well, he was not of this world. When they say no man of this world has seen...

Prabhupāda: So anyone who is not of this world, he can see. That we say also.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: But they say that no man has seen it nor described it.

Prabhupāda: No man has seen it, then how Jesus says that there is kingdom of God?

Madhudviṣa: He said there is the kingdom of God, but he never described it.

Prabhupāda: Because you cannot understand it, you rascals. He said that "Thou shall not kill" and you killed him. You are so intelligent. "And first of all let us kill this man who is advising 'Thou shall not kill.' " Your intelligence is so sharp. Guru-māra-vidyā. First of all kill the guru. That is called guru-māra-vidyā. Guru advised that you take food in goodness, sāttvika. So he first of all advised that don't take fish, just like we are advising, meat, eggs, don't take. Then they thought that "The cow is very pure. Cow is very pure, so let us eat cow, sāttvika."

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Tiny percentage. Just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. In percentage the moon is nothing. If we take percentage of the stars, the moon is nothing. But moon is important than all the nonsense stars. (laughter) But if you take percentage, he has no percentage vote. But because he is moon, he is important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. What is the use of taking percentage of the stars in the presence of moon? Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. One ideal man. Just like in Christian world, one ideal Lord Jesus Christ.

Director: How do you feel about Mao Tse-tung?

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Devotee: He says how do you feel about Mao Tse-tung?

Director: In China he's the ideal man.

Devotee: He's a Communist.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Just see how fool they are. Therefore we simply say these are rascals. They have not even the common sense of an uneducated man. And they are scientist. Why there is no soul? What is the proof? What is their argument? Why they say there is no soul? What is the argument?

Australian devotee 2: Because it says in the Bible that until one accepts Jesus Christ one has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said that animal has no soul? Has he said like that? Has he said?

Australian devotee 2: He says that one must be born again.

Prabhupāda: Never he can say like that. He is not such a fool. He cannot say that.

Australian devotee 4: Like this priest said the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said that the human being has a spirit soul, but the animal just has a soul. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The same thing. "Everyone is sinful, but we are pure sinful." (laughter) Pure sinful.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Guest (1): Sure. That's right. I understand that, and, you know, I'm very broad-minded. I always have said... You know, one time in our Methodist church we had a professor that was giving all religions of the world. And this is rather putting it simply and fast, but it was interesting because of all the different religions, even though they all didn't believe in the divine being, Christ being the son of God, in some cases-there's Buddha and so forth—but they all were preaching about going to the same place, so to speak. And it's peculiar. They all had more or less the Ten Commandments. In other words they all believed in doing the same thing. So that was interesting...

Prabhupāda: But I don't think Christians believe.

Guest (1): So I know you people are good, just as good as I am. Bless you all, and I wish I and all of us were better.

Prabhupāda: Do you think Christians believe in the Ten Commandments?

Guest (1): We think we do, I guess, but we don't practice it, you know.

Prabhupāda: Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." So why they are killing?

Guest (1): Yes, you're right.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: There is no answer. The Lord says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing? Who is a Christian? If you don't obey the order of Christ, how you become a Christian? You cannot say that you are Christian if you disobey the order of Christ.

Guest (1): Yes, I know. You're right. You can't kill...

Prabhupāda: If you don't carry out the order of the government, then you are not a good citizen.

Guest (1): Now, you look like you're either English or...

Prabhupāda: We are neither English nor American. We are servant of God.

Guest (1): I know. You're brotherhood of man. But just my own curiosity... Of course, you have converts of all...

Prabhupāda: No convert. Actually we are. Just like you have got this different dress from me. That does not mean you are convert to the dress. You are a gentleman; I am a gentleman. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: If you don't follow the Christian principles, then how you are a Christian? Just to make a show-bottle. They don't believe in next life, don't believe in the Ten Commandments. Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Christ. This is the followers. The instruction is "Thou shall not kill," but they said, "First of all let us kill you. Then we shall follow your instruction." This is the...

Gurukṛpa: "That's all right, though. We have been saved. We have been saved by Christ. We have accepted the baptism, so we are saved."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the use of their church and preaching?

Devotee: Well, we want to tell the others so they can also be saved.

Prabhupāda: No, the Christian churches, all the priests, they eat meat. They're supporting everything, homosex, everything, man to man marriage.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Gurukṛpa: "Well, we've accepted Jesus, and he's going to save us. That's why we've accepted him. If you accept him in your heart, then he'll save you even though you might be weak at the time of temptation."

Prabhupāda: Then who is going to hell? If everyone is saved like that, then who is going to hell?

Paramahaṁsa: "Well, not everyone will accept Jesus in their heart. So those people have to go to hell."

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Has Jesus Christ said like that, that "Those who believe in me, they will be saved"?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, he says like that.

Prabhupāda: So believing means "I don't accept your commandments." Is that belief? Has Jesus Christ that "You don't believe in my commandments, but you believe in me."

Śrutakīrti: Christ never spoke the commandments. That was Moses.

Prabhupāda: Then don't take Bible. Throw it away. Then don't bring Bible as authority.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...fallen from their original culture. Still, we have seen, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa conscious festival, thousands and thousands of men... That we have experienced.

Gurukṛpa: But in India it seems that no matter what you tell them, they don't change their ways. They have their...

Prabhupāda: No, they believe in Kṛṣṇa, "He is God." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That they believe in.

Śrutakīrti: But that's what the Christians say. "We believe in Christ," but they don't follow.

Prabhupāda: They follow Him. In India they still. Majority follow. The non-followers are minority.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: I hundred percent agree. When we wanted to join the...

Prabhupāda: Especially in the Western countries they had misunderstanding with Christ so that they crucified him. You see? So this is the...

Yogi Bhajan: We can do all that, and still, it will be useful.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we can... We can advise.

Yogi Bhajan: Your visit will be useful, and it will be very divine to come with a message, with a conviction. You know, I have come to this conference here.

Prabhupāda: Which conference?

Yogi Bhajan: This, what is happening in Waikiki.

Girl: Rainbow Festival.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Ambarīṣa: They have a gold Jesus deity.

Siddha-svarūpa: They do. They worship Jesus. But they clearly accept that one, that the person is separate from his body, the soul is different than the body, that we are not flesh, that we are spirit.

Ambarīṣa: They have very strict disciplines too.

Siddha-svarūpa: And they accept that God is a person, that Jesus is the son of the Supreme Person. They even use the word, "Supreme Person, Supreme Personality." So in that way they are in conflict with...

Prabhupāda: That God is separate from Jesus?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, that He is the father of Jesus. They make long arguments to show their point, that God is one with Jesus as father and son, not as two persons the same person. And they also have fairly strict... They have strict principles, but the people don't follow them very well.

Ambarīṣa: A lot of the young people do. Like I live around Salt Lake, and there's a lot of Mormons there and there's a lot that... (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: ...we can become creators of a universe and be in charge of our own universe. They are hopeful for that. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in Bhāgavata also that after passing one hundred life of first-class karmī one can become Brahmā. And after becoming Brahmā, he goes directly back to home, back to Godhead. (break) ...this dissolution, Brahmā hasn't got to die. By the same body he goes. (break) All the inhabitants of Brahmaloka they also go with Brahmā.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Ambarīṣa: 'Cause they have made many great religious pictures, big epics about Jesus and stuff like that. So maybe they would be open to the idea of doing the Bhagavad-gītā. That would be nice. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: I mentioned to you something about making a movie of Bhagavad-gītā. You said it would be very difficult to find fifty thousand elephants. (laughs) There will be some... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa-līlā will be easier. He can be fighting one demon or dancing with the gopīs. Bhagavad-gītā is... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...do not understand the existence of soul, then why do they say, "My head, my hand"? Why not say, "I head." What is their answer? Why do you say, "My head"?

Siddha-svarūpa: They have no answer. (break) ...very much to know about this.

Prabhupāda: That is the folly.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Atonement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whenever we meet the Christians, they always say that "It doesn't matter because Jesus came to save us from our sins. So now it doesn't matter because we're saved."

Prabhupāda: Then Jesus is a fool, and he has taken contract to suffer, and these people are free to commit sin.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Jesus actually said...

Prabhupāda: And they are so clever that they can make God's son also fool. Over-clever.

Dharmādhyakṣa: (break) ...always said, "Your sins are forgiven you, go and sin no more." He always gave that injunction, "Go and sin no more." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is no description of sins in Bible? What are the sins?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killing, adultery, stealing. They mention it.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Our endeavor is just to become a dog of a Vaiṣṇava, not to become an animal like lion. We remain a dog, but of a Vaiṣṇava. And we refuse to become a big animal like lion. This is our philosophy. Another song is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's, janmaobi jadi icchā to hara, kīṭa-janma hau jaha das bhakta tuṅhara: "I do not know what is my next life. That depends on Your consideration. But if you think that I must take another birth or another many births, it doesn't matter. Only I request You that You make me an insignificant ant in the house of a devotee." Kīṭa-janma hau jaha das tuṅhara. This is Vaiṣṇava aspiration, that If become an ant under the protection of a Vaiṣṇava, that is also successful. And I don't want to become a Brahmā who is not a devotee." So this Vaiṣṇava philosophy is very accurate. Therefore this life of a Vaiṣṇava begins with surrender, not the challenge. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is Vaiṣṇava. Christ also said that "Kingdom of God is for the humble and meek." Is it not? He never said it is for the lion and elephant. The material disease means we have challenged Kṛṣṇa, God, "Oh, what is God? We can live independently." And that is material scientist. They are trying to prove, "There is no God. We can create everything in the laboratory." And that is their foolishness.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So anyone who is speaking about God with authority—take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world—you accept him. We Indians, we accept Caitanya or Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. That is the way. That is the way because these ācāryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Kṛṣṇa is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding. And theology does not mean to make research who is God. That is theosophy.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: That's what a university in part is for, to study about how people have thought on different matters.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. I have already said. If you are seeking after something, if you get that something, why don't you accept it?

Dr. Pore: Do you believe that Christ said that Kṛṣṇa was his father?

Prabhupāda: The name may be different. Just like in our countries we say this flower something. You say something, something. But the subject matter must be the same. Name is not... You can say in a different way, as you understand. But God is one. God cannot be two. You may give Him different names. That is different thing. But God is one. God cannot be two.

Dr. Wolfe: We may assume, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that God has innumerable names.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ādau-mātā, real mother, and guru-patnī, the wife of guru or teacher, she is also mother 'cause teacher is father. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. She is mother. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhm..., rāja-patnikā, the queen, the wife of the king. She is mother. And then cow is mother because you are drinking her milk. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi rāja-patnikā, dhenur dhatrī, nurse. Nurse is also mother because you suck the breast of the nurse. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers. So you cannot kill your mother. That is not very good philosophy. And who can deny, "The cow is not mother"? Who has got this audacity? You are drinking milk in the very morning. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill?—wholesale killing stop." And the Vedic literature is little liberal. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill," but, "You shall not kill at least cow." But the wholesale stop is not possible. The Vedic wisdom knows that. But you shall not kill at least cow. That is civilization.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayādvaita: But he was trying to say that because God is dead, now we have to revive our relationship with Christ. And then he equated that that everyone is, that means we have to have a relationship with all the human beings.

Dr. Judah: Yes. It is put on a, certainly, on a more humanistic scheme.

Jayādvaita: And now people want to know Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Judah: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Did they actually seriously think that the Father was dead?

Dr. Judah: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...dead, then what kind of God he is?

Dr. Judah: Yeah. He wouldn't be any.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. No, if you want to worship, then worship as we do. We have Kṛṣṇa's Deity worshiping. But what is this, keep a statue on open place and the crows pass stool on the head? (laughter) What is this respectful? In the Vedic civilization does not required. They worship deity but not like that, exposed to the crows for passing stool. That is idolism, and this is good.

Brahmānanda: The Christians do this. They have Jesus Christ outside,...

Prabhupāda: In the open.

Brahmānanda: ...exposed. And they accuse us of idol worship.

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). This is a place—in every step there is danger. We are walking in a very nice park. At any moment there may be revolution, whole thing is changed. Whole thing is, becomes fire. Just like, in India now it has become. So we should remember that here in this material world, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam, every step there is danger. Give up this place. That is the real intelligence.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). The essence of all Vedic knowledge. (break)

Bhāvānanda: ...a few days previous Sudāmā Mahārāja and I were in Salt Lake City. We went to the Mormon Church visitor's center. Beautiful presentation. Dioramas, so many dioramas, and a big ramp, circular ramp like we want to have in Māyāpur. You walk up into a big diorama of the universe with... Lord Jesus is there. Beautiful presentation. A bogus philosophy, but nice presentation.

Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?

Bhāvānanda: That when you marry, then you are married eternally.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: What is the difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Christ consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Christ consciousness is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but people do not follow the rules and regulations of Christianity. Therefore they are not awakened. The commandments of Christ, they do not follow. Therefore they do not come to the standard of consciousness.

Sandy Nixon: What is unique about Kṛṣṇa consciousness that separates it from other religions? If it's a religion.

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Religious..., not dogma. Just like in Christian religion it is said that "God created this." So this is a fact, but it is not properly explained. And neither the followers understood how to explain, third-class men. So therefore they should accept, that's all. They should accept. Just like one thing, sweetmeat. A child is tasting. So if the child wants how it is made, so he has no power to understand. Therefore he should be simply ordered, "You simply eat. That's all." So in the Bible it is like that. And therefore it is strictly ordered that "You should follow." The things are there but they are not explained because they were third-class men. Otherwise why the commandment was, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Jesus Christ? So what class of men they were? All third-class, fourth-class men. How they will understand? Now people have become, by education, advanced...

Bahulāśva: We should go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because they have these sprinklers on here.

Prabhupāda: Now they should come to big dictionary. This is Vedic. The Vedic truth is there, but it is not properly explained because the men were fourth-class. Now the people have become advanced. They should take to Vedic literature.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: As a matter of fact there's a very famous quote from Christ...

Prabhupāda: I think Christ said that there are many things to be spoken but...

Paramahaṁsa: "My father's house has many rooms, but I cannot tell you of it now."

Prabhupāda: Because they were fourth-class, fifth-class men. They will not understand. Therefore it is taken, "dogmas." The modern students, they are advanced in education, and these things are not explained. And besides that, their education is atheistic. Therefore they are trying to reject religion.

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say you cannot study Veda because Christ said that there is no other way than himself.

Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, "There is no God." "There is no God," but he is God himself.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Guest: The reason why I asked was because other spiritual masters such as Jesus and the Buddha have required first that people give all of their possession to the poor rather than give them to a community fund such as the Self-Realization Fellowship, the Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, or any other...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right, because after all... Why to the poor? We say... I do not know whether Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, said, but generally people are inclined to give to the poor. That, suppose you have got some money. I go: "Sir, give us some contribution for spending for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He will not like very much. And if I go, ask some money, that "I am going to open some hospital for the poor suffering humanity," he will give immediately. Is it not the general tendency? If I say a moneyed man, "Please give me some money. I will spend it for Kṛṣṇa," he will not give. (chuckles) But if I approach him that "I am going to open a charitable institution for the poor," he will give me. So these Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha has said like that just to try to this, make this man dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay for Kṛṣṇa; he will be inclined for the poor. The real purpose is to make him dispossess. Unless he is penniless, he will not take to God. So the real purpose is to make him dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay his money for God.

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: This has got some meaning. What is this matchbox? There is earth, there is sands (sense?), there is comfort. So we shall go this way or...? (break) It is all vacant? (break) Big demonstration of cow fighting, bull fighting, and kill them. Such a Christian is trying to convert others as Christians! Just see the fun. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are sporting with the life of bull, and they are Christian. We have to believe.

Yadubara: Isn't that somewhat in the kṣatriya spirit?

Prabhupāda: Nonsense spirit. Rascal spirit.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: That is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always. That's all. All of us, we are keeping these beads. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (4): Prabhupāda, what can you say to someone who says, "Lord Jesus fed thousands of people fish"? What can you tell them?

Prabhupāda: If there is nothing available, what can be done? But when you have got such orange, such nice fruits, and rice and dahl and milk, why should you eat fish? After all, you have to eat something. If such nice foods are not available, you can eat fish. But when very nice foods are available, why should you? In other place Christ said that "These vegetables should be your meat," like that?

Satsvarūpa: In Genesis, the very beginning of the Old Testament. "The plants shall be your meat."

Prabhupāda: One must eat something. The nature's law is that sahastānā... Sahastānām ahastāni. And catuṣ-padam. That is the arrangement by nature's way, that animals, they have no hands. So the primitive life, so they become food for the primitive natives or uncivilized man. They kill some animals and eat. And why civilized man do so? He can produce his food. God has given him land. He has intelligence. Just like our temple commander was telling us. He has got immense opportunity... Just explain to them about you are producing with the farm.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like."

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance. They do not know what is respons...

Mādhavānanda: They would say that so many may have taken God realization as responsibility, following some Christ... church or something like that, but they are also frustrated.

Prabhupāda: We are not frustrated. Eh? We are not frustrated. Are we frustrated? Then? How the rascal says, "frustrated"? If you take false thing, then you will be frustrated. If you take real path of God realization, there is no question of frustration. It is ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, increasing pleasure, no frustration.

Mādhavānanda: Then they say that no one has real information of God.

Prabhupāda: You have no, rascal, because you are rascal. I have got. You just wash my feet, and I will inform you.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I never said...

Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhāgavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way.

Prabhupāda: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru."

Dr. Patel: It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I mean, that is what it is, what what we take, in fact...

Prabhupāda: We do not...

Dr. Patel: The Christians don't know that we take it like that.

Prabhupāda: Even if we say "Mohammed," why not? Anyone who has preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā, sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The Mohammed also said Allah akbar.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just Vaiṣṇava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness in toto, absolute.... There cannot be a higher bhakta than that. It is said that Jesus Christ learned all these things in India. It might be a fact?

Passerby: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: And he daily bhakta. (?) He came for pūjā, for guru. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...devatā bhaktāḥ, te 'pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam. They give examples, as the gopīs worshiped Kātyāyanī. But that is not avidhi. They went to Kātyāyanī for getting the favor of Kṛṣṇa. They prayed to mother Kātyāyanī, "Please be favorable to us so that Kṛṣṇa may be pleased upon us." Others go to beg from Kātyāyanī some material benefits, but the gopīs, they did not ask for any material benefit. And therefore that is vidhi.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Humble and meek. Christ also taught like that. "The humble and meek will go to the kingdom of God."

Dr. Patel: "Meek and humble will..." What is that?

Prabhupāda: Here the disease is nobody is humble, nobody is meek.

Dr. Patel: That is car-dharma.

Prabhupāda: Not car...

Dr. Patel: Car-dharma is that.

Prabhupāda: That is material dharma.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Then you can protect from death? Can you?

Brahmānanda: But can God protect? Even Jesus Christ, he was killed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are faulty. But you are so advanced. Do you protect yourself from death? We are faulty. That is your decision. That we admit. But what is your position? Protect yourself from death. At any moment death can take place. How you'll protect yourself? Therefore we take protection of God. That "God, You can kill me at any moment. You can save me also." Therefore we are intelligent. But you cannot protect from the onslaught of God. We admit God is great, but you do not, although you will not be protected. You cannot protect yourself from birth, death, old age and disease. So what is the meaning of your protection?

Brahmānanda: So both the devotee and the nondevotee, they are both in the same position. They both...

Prabhupāda: They... And the devotees know that we are under the control of the Supreme, but you do not know. You are cats and dogs, and the dogs do not know, the cats do not know, you do not know. Therefore you are no better than the cats and dogs. And we know that there is God; there is controller. Therefore we are not cats and dogs. We are equal to the cats and dogs. You do not know; therefore you remain cats and dogs. We know.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: "You have violated from the very beginning the orders of Christ, 'Thou shall not kill,' and you are killing, only killing. So what you have not done?"

Devotee 1: They say that man has to dominate over the animals. They should...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should kill and eat them. Very good reasoning. "The father should dominate over children; therefore the children should be killed and eaten up." So rascals, and they are professing religious leaders.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Harikeśa: Well, the Bible is just some story. I mean, the Bible is just some story. Why should we believe that all of a sudden there was…

Prabhupāda: No, Bible is not authorized because it was compiled after Jesus Christ finished.

Harikeśa: No, the Bible was there… Old Testament has been there for thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Old Testament, but what is going on, Bible…

Harikeśa: That Genesis, where it says the creation…

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to... (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samādhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiraṇyakaśipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: In the book that Haṁsadūta published, of Christ, Kristos and Krishna, these things are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is in the Aquarian Gospel. (Break) Dr. Wolf has said that he cannot accept from Krishna to Krista. Then, by that word, he has proved himself another rascal, because he does not know the Sanskrit way of philology. Sanskrit, there are vargas—ka-varga, ca-varga, ṭa-varga, ta-varga and pa-varga—five vargas. So Kṛṣṇa is in the ṭa-varga. Ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa. So Kṛṣṇa, it can be replaced by ṭa also. (laughter) He does not know that, this rascal. That is the difficulty. These Western rascals, little knowledge, they think very good scholar. That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Central Asia and inhabited in India. Then the Indian civilization sprang. Everybody thinks that India was not originally inhabited. It was all inhabited by the Dravidians, and then the Dravidians were pushed into the South and then Aryans dominated them. Whatever they learn in the schools. And because they have this theory, therefore they have to date all the śāstras, after, either after Christ or just a few centuries before Christ. (break) ...bhārata, they say, it must have been a small family feud and some poet's imagination made it a big war.

Prabhupāda: "May be. May not be." (laughter) We say, "may not be."

Brahmānanda: They say the Mahābhārata was written 1400 B.C., and that date correlates with dates of the Egyptian and Greek Empire.

Prabhupāda: No, no, so many dates have been quoted there. Which is correct? That is our question. So many dates they have discussed. And which one is correct? Either everyone is correct or everyone is incorrect. This is the... There cannot be many dates; that is not possible. Date must be one. So which one is correct? Who will answer this?

Brahmānanda: Everyone has a different opinion.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Latin and Sanskrit are more or less common. They have got those sapta-vibhaktīs in Latin also.

Prabhupāda: And this "Christ" has come from Kristo, Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Dr. Patel: The cow from... Gao from cow, and cow from gao. No? It is absolutely not..., so very easy.

Prabhupāda: We are Kṛṣṇian, and they are Christian. There is similarity.

Dr. Patel: Nomenclature. Christ was really a bhāgavata, I mean, in a true sense.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.

Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jews?

Dr. Patel: Really, it is God's choicest race. (laughter) They have produced wonderful people right from Christ up to Professor Einstein, very bold people, very bold indeed. They are truthful to their convictions. They would die for their convictions but they will not, I mean, budge an inch.

Brahmānanda: But they're impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Very brave. Very brave race.

Brahmānanda: They are impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Today still, those people really very brave. Very brave. It is the choicest race from God. It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda is very much pleased. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Look at the Christ. Look at the Christ. Against all odds he's, I mean, up to the end of his life he remained one, truthful to his convictions. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...keśa-dharanam. Every young man is keeping big, big hair. Lavanyaṁ keśa... That is the symptom of this age. It is written in the Bhāgavata, lavanyaṁ keśa-dharanaṁ. Vipratvaṁ sūtram eva hi. Vipratvaṁ sūtram eva hi: "A man becomes brāhmaṇa simply by that thread."

Dr. Patel: They keep on the thread for cavi, for keeping key there so it may not be lost.

Prabhupāda: And daṁpatye ratim eva hi: "Husband and wife means sex." Daṁpatye ratim eva hi. This, everything is there.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That war is always there. But still they remain two-legged animals. It requires education.

Dr. Patel: But sir, I often wonder that Jesus Christ was so wonderful, I mean brotherhood and all these things, and these, practically people following his creed are warring like this.

Prabhupāda: No, who is following our Gītā?

Dr. Patel: Hm hm, I mean practically why...

Prabhupāda: Why do you blame them? We are also doing. Nobody is following. That is animalism. They have got direction, but they won't follow. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya! Jaya! Mr. Sar, why don't you come and see how things are going on.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: It is the church which has distorted the message. You see the Christ's message is distorted by the church; our Kṛṣṇa's message is distorted by our temples, sort of a thing.

Prabhupāda: Why temples? Even your big, big political leaders, they distort. Why do you blame the temples?

Dr. Patel: But Christianity is distorted by the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone. That is going on.

Dr. Patel: ...those popes. However, Christ taught bhāgavata-dharma, absolute bhāgavata-dharma. It is this creation of the church, really to my mind, that the Christ is forgotten by the Western countries.

Prabhupāda: And who is remembering your Kṛṣṇa in this country?

Dr. Patel: There are a few people. I, we are not that...

Prabhupāda: In Bombay, there are so many roads, "Vivekananda road." But there is no Kṛṣṇa Road. Hm? Who is remembering Kṛṣṇa?

Dr. Patel: There is Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery, in market.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Culture means human life. Otherwise dog's life. There is.... Adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam. Everything is described. Amānitvam: first of all you have to learn how to become humble. And here all the people, they are educated how to become proud. What is education?

Dr. Patel: Christ says, sir, the meek and humble shall inherit this earth. They unfortunately, the followers of Christ are not meek and humble.

Prabhupāda: And this culture cannot be maintained unless one is God conscious. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). There cannot be any culture for a godless person. That is not possible. And, yasyāsti-bhaktir bhagavaty-akiñcanā. Just like this European and American boy is offering obeisances to the guru, this is culture. Why he has learned this culture? Because he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you make one devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all culture will automatically come. One thing. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.