Woman: Swamiji, would you say something about the place of women in your movement?
Prabhupāda: There is no distinction between man and woman. That is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpā-yonayaḥ striyo śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ (BG 9.32). The first is mentioned, striya. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ. These classes are understood to be less intelligent-woman, śūdra, and the vaiśyas. But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, even for them it is open." Because in the spiritual platform there is no such distinction, man, woman, or black, white, or big or small. No. Everyone is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ (BG 5.18), one who is actually learned, he is sama-darśinaḥ. He does not make any distinction. But so far our material body is concerned, there must be some distinction for keeping the society in order.
Woman: The women could become paṇḍitas, then.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Not only come, she can also attain perfection. There is no such restriction. Kṛṣṇa said.
Woman: Do you have any paṇḍitas in the Western movement?
Prabhupāda: There are so many Western woman, girls, in our society. They are chanting, dancing, taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, because superficially, bodily, there is some distinction, so we keep women separately from men, that's all. Otherwise, the rights are the same.
Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jāhnavā devī was-Nityānanda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection.... Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he or she can become guru. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. (break) In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.
Indian man: Well, to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do you not require adhikārī?
Prabhupāda: Adhikārī means he must agree to understand. That is adhikārī. But we do not agree. That is our fault.
Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing. One has to take millions of births to come to this point, and Kṛṣṇa is personally promising, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Why not take advantage? That means you do not agree. If you agree, the result is immediate. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). They are thinking, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is also human being like me. Why shall I surrender to Him?" They are mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Then remain a rascal. What can be done? We have got little independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. But because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got little independence, so we can refuse. Although Kṛṣṇa canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), we can refuse: "Why shall I surrender to You?" That is our misfortune. But if you agree, you get immediate result. Therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. To agree, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Because we have got so many nasty, dirty things within our heart, we cannot agree. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then we become cleansed in heart, and then agree. Those who are not agreeing, for them it is recommended, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir... (CC Adi 17.21). You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is not different, by association of Kṛṣṇa you become purified. Then you understand, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). You become the greatest mahātmā: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is everything." Then you surrender. You have to surrender-today or tomorrow or many millions of births after. You have to do that. Otherwise, you'll be troubled by the laws of material nature.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
So we have to come to that point, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is nature's way, pulling by the ear: "Come here, do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This will go on as long as you are not agreeing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no infringement by māyā. (break) (Bengali) You understand Bengali? So the process is going on by the laws of nature to give us different types of trouble. The main trouble is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). It will go on unless we surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Better surrender in this life and be perfect; then things are all right. And what is the benefit of our so-called independence? If we declare that we are independent of the laws of nature, is it possible? Is it possible? Then where is your independence? Why you are declaring falsely independence? If you declare yourself independent of God, then you become dependent on māyā. Just like the criminals. They don't care for the laws of the government. They become under the laws of the prison house, that's all. There is no question of independence. Either you remain free or in the prison house, you are under the laws of government. So why falsely declaring independent and don't care for the government? Outlaws. That is called māyā-false prestige which is not possible.