Prabhupāda: Yes. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha, bodily concept, this is bahiḥ. And antar is the soul. So they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, simply studying this body externally, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Very nice words, selected words, are used in Bhāgavata.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, this body and the soul are complimentary. If there is no body, soul cannot reside anywhere. And if there is no soul, body will die.
Prabhupāda: No. That is another side of bodily conception. Soul is without . . . asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. "The soul has nothing to do with this material world."
Dr. Patel: That's right. You are absolutely right, sir. But if there is no soul in the body, what will happen to the body?
Prabhupāda: No, no. If there is no soul in the body, then body is useless.
Dr. Patel: It dies.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That we are pointing out, that without soul, this body has no meaning. It is a lump of matter. But you are saying that without this lump of matter, the soul cannot . . .
Dr. Patel: No, no. I don't say that. But so far as the body is living, soul has got to be there.
Prabhupāda: No.
Dr. Patel: If there is no soul inside, what will happen . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. Body requires the soul for movement, but soul does not require the body.
Dr. Patel: Soul creates a body to fulfill . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. Soul creates in this sense: by his karma he has to accept, accept a certain type of body. But originally he doesn't require this material world. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. And that is self-realization.
Dr. Patel: The production of the body in the cosmos is the līlā of . . .
Prabhupāda: No līlā. It is compulsory.
Dr. Patel: Why compulsory?
Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is beaten with shoes, that is not his līlā. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: What it is?
Prabhupāda: It is force that, "You must be beaten with shoes." That is not līlā. Nobody says, "Let me play this līlā and you beat me with shoes." (laughter) No sane man will do that. When a man is punished, that is by force, superior force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is force, prakṛti, nature's. You cannot say that "I don't care for the prakṛti." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. It is God's prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The matter, material nature, is forced upon him. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). He is accepting different bodies according to the contamination of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. That he does not know. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He does not know that there is a superior karta, daiva netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantu deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). So he is forced to accept a certain kind of body by the material nature. That he does not know. This is non-Āryan. Like dog: he does not know that why he has got this dog's body. He simply has learned how to bark, that's all.