Prabhupāda: Yes. God is giving you the remedy, that "You surrender to Me, you are immediately relieved from all sufferings." But we shall not do that. So what is the alternative than suffering? This is common sense.
Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, then.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, the contrast of suffering versus not suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Suffering, this is only suffering. This material world is only suffering, but under illusion we are accepting suffering as enjoyment.
Arnold Weiss: Is this because the illusion that we see is a representation of the spiritual world in a sense?
Prabhupāda: Illusion is another punishment. We wanted to forget God, and God's illusory energy is giving him facility to forget God. This is called illusory energy.
Arnold Weiss: In the beginning, when we were first part of God, as I understand from reading Bhagavad-gītā and some of your other translations and purports, which I enjoy very much—I thank you for making them available—I understand that our souls are also part of God, as a drop of water is part of that ocean. How... Is there any knowledge or information of how we incurred this first separation from God?
Prabhupāda: Separation... Generally, when we want to become God, there is separation.
Arnold Weiss: A rebellion.
Prabhupāda: You cannot... There is one God, and if you want to become God, you are immediately driven away: "Just become God in the material world. Go there and try to become God."
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda? There is a parallel in the Bible that Lucifer broke away from God because He wanted to be God.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Arnold Weiss: I was thinking that too.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This rascaldom... This rascaldom makes him a dog. Instead of God, he become a dog. So this rascaldom is going on, that "I am God." For this purpose he's suffering, and still, he wants to continue it. Nobody can become God; God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. So how we can become God? But that endeavor is going on.
Arnold Weiss: As I understand it, since God is omnipresent, omnipotent, all-knowledgeable and all-remembering, then He is in a position where He can know what our choices are going to be, and what is going to happen with us in the future.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You make a choice; you can change it. But as soon as you change it, God knows what you are going to do. This is very common sense. Suppose you are honest man; I entrust you with something. But as soon as you become dishonest, immediately I withdraw my interest (entrust?), because I know what you'll do. So you have got little independence. You are put into certain position, but you can change it at anytime. So your position is, actually, you are eternal servant of God. As soon as you change it, then your suffering begins. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, after instructing Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa is asking, "Now I have instructed you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathechasi tathā kuru. That independence you have got. Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not interfere with the little independence He has given to us. And because we are part and parcel of God, God is fully independent, so we have got little portion of independence. So by misusing that independence, we can desire to become God, and we suffer.