Indian man (5): Why does God permit all these sins and offenses?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Dr. Patel: That is the eternal . . . that a madman created all this. (break)
Prabhupāda: Why do you not understand? God does not create, but you create. Just like you infect some disease, so you create your disease. Nobody's creating your disease. The simple thing, why don't you understand? If you . . . kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Guṇa-saṅga. If you associate with the different qualities of this material nature, then you inf . . . you become infected. You, if you associate with the tamo-guṇa, then you become lower-class man, animals. That is your fault. It is not Kṛṣṇa's fault.
Dr. Patel: All your actions and their effects, which are collecting on you . . . (break)
Indian man (5): . . . knows the procreating from the first word or some people will exercise their so-called free will and choosing sin, and still He creates them. If He were not to . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. There is no question of choosing. As soon as you associate some infectious disease, it is not the question of disease. You must be diseased. This is the law of nature. If you infect the smallpox disease, then you must be suffering from smallpox. That is law of nature. Not that your father has created smallpox disease for you. Try to understand like this. You infect yourself. (break) . . . giving him chance.
Dr. Patel: Chance. But you, as a jīva, is so much engrossed in the māyā, in the tree, in the fruits of it, that you don't heed the God . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: . . . Prabhupāda says.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is the . . . that is the disease. Now, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ . . . (BG 18.66). Who is caring for Him?
Dr. Patel: So you stop this looking down and look up.
Prabhupāda: Who is caring for Him? Now, now. That is independence. Now you suffer.
Dr. Patel: And once you look up, and when you realize that this is all . . .
Prabhupāda: Then you become . . .
Dr. Patel: . . . His māyā, all is due to Him, then you get released from the bondage of the māyā, and you get . . .
Prabhupāda: Māyā . . . māyā . . . māyā . . . it is not for Kṛṣṇa, for me.
Dr. Patel: Māyā is for jīva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like darkness. Darkness means absence of sun. But sun is never absence of sun.
Mr. Sar: Yes, sun is never absent.
Prabhupāda: Sun is always in the sunlight. It is for us to be in the darkness.
Mr. Sar: Kṛṣṇa is the Lord of māyā. He's the Lord of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). By simply surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa, one becomes freed from māyā. So how Kṛṣṇa can be under the influence of māyā?
Mr. Sar: No, He cannot. He's the Lord of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But these Māyāvādīs says that, "Kṛṣṇa is also, when He comes, He comes under the influence of māyā." This is called Māyāvāda. (break) . . . adhibhūta, material, material adhibhūtas. And adhiyajña. Adhiyajña is Paramātmā. And adhibhuta, material. And adhidaiva . . .
Dr. Patel: Is the other demigods.
Prabhupāda: Devas, yes.
Dr. Patel: All the devas of the ten indriyas.
Mr. Sar: He's asking already, kiṁ tad brahma kim . . .
Prabhupāda: That is . . . these are the questions. So this will be answered.
Dr. Patel: In the next chapter it will be answered.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Dr. Patel: Eighth Chapter. This is the beginning of . . . this is the question put to raise the new chapter.
Mr. Sar: But there in the next chapter, anta-kāle ca mām eva smaran muktvā . . . (BG 8.5). (break) Yaḥ prayāti sa mad-bhāvaṁ . . .
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel: It is fact only. I may tell you sir, that you must have such practice . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . you practice remembering Kṛṣṇa—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa—how you'll be able? Anta-kāle. There, there will be so many disarrangement of the body. You see? That if you practice, if you practice, then it is possible.
Dr. Patel: As a matter of fact . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: It is fact only. I may tell you that you must have such practice . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . to always remember Kṛṣṇa, it is not that all of a sudden you remember Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.
Mr. Sar: That's why He says, tasmāt sarveṣu kāleṣu mām anusmara yudhya ca . . . (BG 8.7).
Dr. Patel: That is . . . I told you . . .
Mr. Sar: Mayyarpita-mano-buddhir . . .
Dr. Patel: Just like I have repeatedly told you . . .
Prabhupāda: This is simplest method. In whatever condition of life you may remain, you simply remember Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That's all.
Mr. Sar: Ananya-cetāḥ satataṁ yo māṁ smarati nityaśaḥ . . . (BG 8.14) (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . demigods. That is not possible.
Mr. Sar: Mām upetya punar janma . . . (BG 8.15). (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . simply distributing what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. I am a fool number one also, like others.
Mr. Sar: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: No, no, no, no, no.
Prabhupāda: But my only ambition is that I don't speak anything else beyond Kṛṣṇa's speaking. That's all.
Mr. Sar: Correct, sir. Just you are uncompromisingly speaking. That uncompromising you are speaking. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . places that, "Swāmījī, how you have done this wonderful thing?" And I do not know what is wonderful thing. But I know this, that I do not adulterate. That's all. (break) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He says, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa' upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That's all. Āmāra ajñaya . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu says . . . Dr. Patel, hear. Kṛṣṇa says . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128): "You become a guru." Just see. "You become a guru by My order." Then one may say that, "What qualification I have got that I can become guru?" That only qualification, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa' upadeśa. You don't require to manufacture any upadeśa. Whatever is there already spoken by Kṛṣṇa, you distribute it. You become guru. This is guru. Not that you are fool. Yes, I am fool. But I am not so fool like you that I adulterate.
Dr. Patel: No, I . . .
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Dr. Patel: I am a fool number one. (laughter) Two or three. Like that. (laughter) (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . was a fool. But if we follow Kṛṣṇa, then even though I am fool, I am right. Just like this child, he's a fool. But if father says: "My dear child, this is called stick," and when she says: "This is stick," this is right. He may be fool, but the version which is given, that is right. So I may be fool, you may be fool. That's all right. If you carry Kṛṣṇa's message, then you are right. (break) We are fool. How I have come to this material . . .? Yes.
Mr. Sar: Not born then you wont be part . . . unless you are in the realm of māyā, you cannot be born as a human being.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) . . . samutthena sarge yānti . . .
Mr. Sar: Born in the māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Māyā, māyā means that thing . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . that is. That is right. One who says like that, "It is right," he's not in māyā. Māyām etāṁ taranti te.
Dr. Patel: Because He is the māyā-maker.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is . . . He says that mām eva ye prapadyante. If you simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then they are not in māyā. You are not in māyā. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) . . . what Kṛṣṇa says, then you are not in māyā.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Because He is actually . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . then he surpasses māyā.
Dr. Patel: Unless and until you know the madari who makes the web . . .
Prabhupāda: But you can know when you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. (break) So if you are so unintelligent, then it is impossible. But if you have got little intelligence, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa says . . . we were explaining that, that "The taste of the water, I am." So don't you taste water? Then the taste is Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty?
Indian man (5): Each life being a plan of God, God is responsible . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all try to understand this, then talk big, big words. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa by drinking water. Is it very difficult?
Indian man (5): No.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Indian man (5): But it will take millions of years before you understand Him like that . . .
Prabhupāda: No, because if you won't understand, if you don't understand, then it takes millions of years. Otherwise, in a second. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8): "I am the taste of the water." Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. So you see the sunshine. This is Kṛṣṇa. The moonshine is Kṛṣṇa. First of all try to see Kṛṣṇa in . . . just like there are two kinds of snakes. One snake is poisonless, and another snake is poisonous. So before catching the poisonous snake, you practice to catch the non-poisonous snake. Then gradually you'll be able. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, and this is the process to see Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says: "I am the taste of the water," that is a fact. So you see this Kṛṣṇa. Then you will, one day, you will realize the Supreme Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between this Kṛṣṇa and that Kṛṣṇa. This is the process (break) . . . learn something, you should accept the process. If you don't accept the process, how you can learn?