Prabhupāda: So simply we have designated, "Iranian," "Indian" and "Canadian," "German," this, that. So we have to give up this designation. Then there will be unity. Otherwise not. But they are very much proud of this designation. Therefore bhakti means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170), when one is completely free from designation. The designation is material. It has nothing to do with spiritual life. And the whole world is being ruled by designation: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," "I am that." Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), this is.
Ambassador George: There is a hierarchy of consciousness, of course. But it's not . . .
Prabhupāda: So that consciousness should be without designation. If I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be effective. It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That we have to give up. Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They are not thinking. They do not think that they are American or they are Indian or Canadian or African or Hindu, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vai . . . nothing of the sort.
Ambassador George: Of course, there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness also.
Prabhupāda: That consciousness will not help him. That will rather check him.
Ambassador George: Yes, exactly.
Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, if I die with designation, then I will have to accept again the body. So the mind is the criterion, contamination. We get different types of body on account of mind being contaminated.
Ambassador George: Contaminated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to accept similar body, by nature's way. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because the mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, he got this body. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now you mix up. By first mixing it becomes nine, and again mixing up, it becomes eighty-one. And each quality, there are thousands and thousands of variety. And that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of forms of life. So it is very . . . God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and awards the body accordingly. It is not man-made law, that there may be some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, either smallpox or cholera or this or that, you must develop that disease.
Therefore we should be desireless. Desireless means material desires. That material desire begins with the designation. That . . . the child, he has got a childish body, and he plays like a child. The same child, when he will get a youthful body, he will do like that. The soul is the same. But on account of different type of body he is acting differently. That is practical. A small child, in the childhood he will talk like nonsense. People will enjoy it. But the same child, when he is grown up and he talks like nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed. The circumstance has changed. This is the real education, that we are changing body, and according to our bodily situation we are acting differently. That they do not understand. There is no school, college or education about the soul and the soul's changing different position of different body, and in this way he remains materially entangled. And the real relief is to get him out of this bodily concept of life and advance in spiritual concept of. . .
Ambassador George: So bhakti is really a process of decontaminating the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Right you are. You are intelligent and . . . yes. That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help, because all this education will keep him within these material bodies. And his real relief is how to get out of this material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is required, in Bhagavad-gītā. After giving up this body, no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum (SB 5.5.18). There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more this material body. That is education. And the whole Vedic education is meant for this purpose. (break) . . . in his original spiritual life, that is mukti. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that—to educate people how to achieve his original consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.