Bhavānanda: "This evidence from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives assurance to the pure devotee of being elevated to association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī remarks in this connection that one who is actually attracted by the beauty of the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa or His service and whose heart, by such attraction, is always full with transcendental bliss will naturally never aspire after the liberation which is so valuable to the impersonalists."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Liberation, a devotee never... Why liberation? Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he says... Liberation means kaivalya. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. What is this liberation? It is as good as the hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Tri-daṣa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). The persons, they are hankering after being elevated to the heavenly planet. So for a devotee, this is will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria, it has no value. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tri-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpayate indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. And the yogis... Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. Karmīs are after heavenly planet; jñānīs are after kaivalya, liberation; yogis are after controlling the senses. So senses are very dangerous. Everyone knows. Our senses are very strong. Therefore the yoga system is recommended for them who are very much in bodily concept of life. Therefore they are advised to exercise the body to come to the point of spiritual platform. But those who are above bodily concept of life, those senses have been purified.
- sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
- tat-paratvena nirmalam
- hṛṣīkeṇa-hṛṣīkeśa
- sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
- (CC Madhya 19.170)
Those who are actually engaged in pure devotion, their senses are purified. Without purified senses, you cannot approach. With ordinary material senses, you cannot approach. Therefore we have to follow the regulative principles. Regulative principle and sinful activities. Otherwise, how we can approach Kṛṣṇa? Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. By the senses we commit so many sinful activities. Therefore sin, without being free from sinful activities, nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Kṛṣṇa is pavitraṁ paramam, the supreme purified. So how we can approach Kṛṣṇa without being purified? Therefore the four principle, regulative principles must be followed. Otherwise, there is no chance of advancing. There is no chance. They are relatively cooperatively helpful, chanting, but one must be willing that "I must be purified to approach Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he becomes sahajiyā. So "I am approaching Kṛṣṇa. I can smoke bidi. I can take marijuana. I can..." No. Must be purified. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "A similar passage is also there in Third Canto, Fifteenth Chapter, of the same book, wherein Uddhava addresses Lord Kṛṣṇa and says, 'My dear Lord, for persons who are engaged in Your transcendental loving service there is nothing worth obtaining from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification or liberation, although happiness from these different sources can be very easily had by them.' "
Prabhupāda: Therefore devotee's another name is niṣkiñcana, akiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Niṣkiñcana. He doesn't possess anything, don't want to possess anything material. These are all material things. What are those? Sense gratification, economic development, liberation. They are all different stages of material existence. And Kṛṣṇa is not for the persons who are hankering after material possessions. Kṛṣṇa is far away. Therefore in the Kuntī-stotra in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata it is said, niṣkiñcanasya gocarāḥ: "You, Kṛṣṇa, You are understood by persons who have become niṣkiñcana." Niṣkiñcana. So niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The qualification of devotion is to become a niṣkiñcana. Means one should not try to possess anything material. He should simply try to possess Kṛṣṇa. There must be some possession. The Māyāvādī philosophy, to dispossess material things, will not help him. He must possess something positive. Otherwise he'll fall down. That is our... Because we want something. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). So we simply, we try, that "Let me become sannyāsī, niṣkiñcana." That is not possible. You must take to the service of Kṛṣṇa. Then when you are fully satisfied that "I possess Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is within my heart," then you can give up all this nonsense, kick out: "I don't want." Otherwise not possible. So the two things: Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajano..., param paro jīveṣa (?). Those who have become ni..., what is this liberation for them? Nothing. The four things, dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa. So when one takes to this shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, that is the highest dharma, topmost. That is the topmost yoga. So why he should hanker after dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90)? It is so nice thing. That is the statement of Uddhava. One who has become pure devotee... One who has possessed... Svāntaḥ-sthita gadābhṛtā. He has become purified. But don't imitate. Actually see whether you are always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right.
- niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya
- pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya
- viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca
- hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu
- (CC Madhya 11.8)
So we have to become niṣkiñcana. But niṣkiñcana we can become only when we possess Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not possible. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "In spite of such facilities, my dear Lord, I do not aspire to achieve any such results. My only prayer is that I may have unflinching faith and devotion unto Your lotus feet."
Prabhupāda: This is the only thing. If we have got unflinching faith and devotion to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then we can automatically become niṣkiñcana, liberated, developed in economic condition. That is not important thing for a devotee. They come automatically. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Kṛṣṇa says. Why he should try for economic development? Kṛṣṇa personally comes. "You want this. Take it." That is devotee. Why he should hankering after economic development? No. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches: na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). There is no need of hankering. Kṛṣṇa knows what he requires, "How My devotee will be satisfied." Kṛṣṇa knows... If Kṛṣṇa sees that this devotee has got little desire for some material enjoyment, Kṛṣṇa will give.
Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest to worship the Lord, for getting the kingdom of his father or better than that. So although when Dhruva Mahārāja saw the Lord he said svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yā..., "I, I don't want anything. I am now fully satisfied", still Kṛṣṇa gave him Dhruvaloka. Because he desired: "No, you enjoy. Then you come back again." So there is no need of asking any... Kṛṣṇa knows, as the father knows, the mother knows what is the need of my child; Therefore pure devotee never asks from Kṛṣṇa anything except His service. Mama janmani janamanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī. "Without any cause let me be engaged in Your service." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfection. Go on.