practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ: "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided. So far other activities are concerned, they are the same as of human being and as of animal. But what is the distinction? The distinction is that in the human society there is an endeavor to understand God, and the animal society, there is no such endeavor. So when the human so. . . so-called human society becomes devoid of God consciousness, it is animal society. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for raising the human society to the real platform of human society, not to keep them in the animal platform. Try to understand God and love Him. This is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So, yes?
Guest (3) (Trappist monk): There's three of us here that are monks from Conyers, Trappist monks, and you use Hare Kṛṣṇa as a way to God consciousness, while in our Christian tradition we use the name Jesus, and we repeat it constantly and try to become conscious of him.
Prabhupāda: Jesus, did he say. . . Jesus Christ, did he say that Jesus is the name of God?
Guest (3): Well, that's what Christians believe, yeah.
Prabhupāda: No, is there anything mentioned in the Bible that Jesus is the name of God?
Guest (3): I'm not sure.
Guest (1): He didn't say it himself, did he? Either in the New Testament. He didn't say it himself, did he?
Guest (3): Did he did what?
Guest (1): Did Jesus say that he is God? Jesus isn't the name of God. He said, "Son of God, son of man."
Guest (3): No, he said God. There's three places that Jesus said he's God, in Hebrews and John, and two places in. . .
Guest (4): "I and the father are one" is in John.
Guest (1): Oh, the father and the son is one. Of course it is one. So are we, because we are all children of God. God must be in us, otherwise we couldn't exist.
Guest (3): Of course.
Guest (1): I am not denying anything, but I'm saying that the meaning might be that "God and Jesus is one" is in a similar way that I and God is one.
Prabhupāda: That is fact. That is fact.
Guest (3): Well, again it depends upon the belief of each individual.
Prabhupāda: No, Jesus is described as son of God. Do you deny that?
Guest (3): Definitely, he is definitely son of God, just as you and I are. But at the same time, as Christians. . . Of course, it's a matter of belief.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The son and the father, they are the same because son is born out of father. So how he can be different? In that sense it is one.
Guest (3): Yeah, I'm not denying the fact that God. . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, try to understand. Just like here is a son, and here is a father. So there is no difference because the son is the expansion of the body of the father. So how the body and expansion of the body can be different? They're one. But still, in relationship, son is son, father is father.
Guest (3): They're still one.
Prabhupāda: In relationship. . . Just like the mother is there, and her relationship with husband is different from her relationship with her son. In that sense, the son and the father, different, but in quality they are one because son is the expansion of the father's body. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. That is real understanding. So if the son sometimes says, "I am one with the father," there is no controversy because he is one in quality.
Guest (3): This tradition of the names was a tradition that was developed for two thousand years, beginning with the monks, and which most Christians are really not aware of, that through this japa a man can come to consciousness of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, when one comes to God consciousness. And the relationship is "God is great; we are subordinate." Just like the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained. Although the father and the son of the same quality, still, the relationship is the father is the maintainer and the son is maintained.
Guest (4): That's, of course, not the orthodox Christian interpretation that's supposed to be. It's very clear by the time the decrees were worked out that Jesus is not a creature. He's incarnate God.
Guest (5): You say that we are creatures, and we are subordinate to God, and I can understand that. Christ was not created.
Prabhupāda: Yes, none of us are created. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā. . .
Guest (5): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people. . . In other words, you say we are co-eternal with the father, just as Christ is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityānām. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā. All these living entity, they are never created; neither they ever die. Nityaḥ śāśvatam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are eternal, ever existing. Even after the destruction of the body, they are not annihilated. So God is eternal. That I have already explained. And we living entities, we are also eternal. How the son can be otherwise? If the father is eternal, the son is also eternal. The son cannot be. . . Because son is the expansion, part and parcel of the father, so all the qualities of the father are there. The only quality difference is the father maintainer and the sons are maintained. That means the father has got unlimited resources to maintain the sons, and the sons, they have no resources. They are maintained by the father. This is perfect philosophy. Otherwise, if you are self-sufficient, then why you go to church and beg father, "Give us our daily bread"? That is. . . That means you are maintained. You are begging the father, "Please maintain us." So if the Supreme Being, who is maintaining millions of trillions of living entities, He is great, or the living entities who are maintained by God, they are great? Therefore God is great, and we are subordinate. This is natural conclusion. How you can go otherwise? If you are self-sufficient, why go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread"? Are you independent? Are you independent?
Guest (5): No. I am a creature.
Prabhupāda: That is subordinate. Yes. Everyone is creature. He is the supreme creature.
Guest (5): I am servant of God. He is my life. Without Him, I can't live. I understand what you're saying, but I believe that our tradition from the Old Testament says that we were created by God.
Prabhupāda: In one sense we are created, just like father creates the sons, not the sons create the father. In that sense we are created. (pause) So taking this word, that "sons were created," so the father existed before our creation.
Guest (5): Existed before our creation?
Prabhupāda: Creation. So He's not of the same quality again.
Guest (4): It's a mystery. We can only bow down before Him then.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. (laughter)
Guest (4): That's beautiful.
Prabhupāda: This word, "creation," is applicable in this material world. In the spiritual world there is no creation—the father and the son existing eternally. When we come to this material world. . . Material world means it has got beginning and it has got end. And spiritual world means there is no beginning, no end. That is sanātana, eternal.