Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the translation for the word jana?
Prabhupāda: Jana means person. Hari means the Lord. A government man. Hari's man. Like Nārada.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nārada Muni is a harijana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All devotees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He is well known. (break) (reading:) "The only remedy lies in the ending of their subservience to the higher castes and securing for them economic independence. But according to the Bhāgavatam, a śūdra can never be given economic independence. If they want economic independence, they should elevate themselves to the higher castes."
Prabhupāda: It will not become higher caste. They do not know. Economic independence, who is checking now? There is no such check all over the world. Just like in Bombay. Everyone can do business. So why they cannot do?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they are not intelligent enough.
Prabhupāda: That means they have no intelligence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means they are śūdra. And if someone is a śūdra, how can you let him have his own money?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, everything requires intelligence. If you haven't got that standard of intelligence, how you can do it? Nowadays, suppose if you do some business, is there a hindrance that "You are low class, you cannot do this business." Neither the government nor the society. You can do it. Why you cannot do it? Just like in Bengal, the Marwaris are rich and Bengalis are... Their land, their country, and their naturals. And the Marwaris have big (indistinct). It is your incapability. Why don't you admit that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It says "Who are these harijanas? What is their origin? What sins did they commit?"
Prabhupāda: Then you answer that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we can answer these questions. Yes, they did commit sins. Therefore they are in this position.
Prabhupāda: Don't say... Harijana means the person associated with God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But these men are... I mean their position... Everyone is getting what he deserves. So if they are in a downtrodden...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). This is the science.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they are in a downtrodden condition, it's due to their past activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can rectify it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, it can be reversed.
Prabhupāda: It is not that you shall remain... Then, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). If you accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even you are born in low-grade caste or family, you can be elevated. That is to be done. What is done is done. Now we can elevate from this position. That is our capacity.