Prabhupāda: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that's all. They are not eternally . . . just like in the Bible it is said: "Thou shall not kill." (chuckles) But this is not . . . does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, "No, don't do this. Thou shall not covet," a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, "There is God, kingdom of God," little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says: "Thou shall not kill," is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God?
Pañcadraviḍa: These things, they are also in (sic:) Manu-saṁhiti?
Prabhupāda: That is for . . . Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) ". . . shall not kill," this is expectation, "Someday, in future, one may become religious," that's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few, because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion, killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion? The more they take to the sinful activities, the more they become implicated—again birth and birth and birth and birth. Unless one is completely free, he cannot understand what is God. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ pāpam. You know this verse? The Bhagavad-gītā, yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: When one becomes free of sinful activities, then he can begin devotional life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
- yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
To stick to Kṛṣṇa bhajana is not so easy, that you will go on committing all sinful activities and you will become Kṛṣṇa devotee. That is not possible. You have to give up, and you have to come. But this is the process. You will be free, and you will understand. Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151). If one follows bona fide guru's instruction, and he is engaged in devotional service, then it is possible. Then it is possible. Otherwise, if he does whimsically, then it will be a failure. He must carry out the instruction of the guru, bona fide guru. Guru means bona fide guru, not pseudo guru. And according . . . what guru will advise? To be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. These two things will help him. Otherwise it is not possible. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya, "By the mercy of guru and by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa." So both of them should be served. That is the process. Not that, "Now I have become advanced devotee, I don't require to serve guru." Neither, "Oh, I am serving my guru. I don't care for Kṛṣṇa." No. Parallel line. Not that, "One line I can walk." No. Parallel line. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Therefore in our temple, along with Deities, guru is also worshiped. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ, if one accepts guru—"Guru is guru. Guru is guru"—as ordinary human being, then that is offense, nārakī buddhi.