Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are trying to become happy by material adjustment. This will never be successful. So what is their answer?
Harikeśa: They might point out how successful they have been in the past.
Prabhupāda: What successful?
Harikeśa: Now we have these big, beautiful houses. If it's too hot we air-condition it.
Prabhupāda: You have to be... You will be kicked out from the house. You will not be allowed to stay here. What is this success? You will be kicked out. What is your success? You have constructed very nice house. Very good. All credit to you. But I shall kick you out. What you will do? Where is your success? Hm? It is waste of time. That is sane man's intelligence. "If I am going to be kicked out, why shall I spoil my energy in this way?" This is intelligence. But they have no intelligence even.
Harikeśa: But that's just a fatalistic attitude.
Prabhupāda: Why fatalistic? It is practical. You want to live, you want to enjoy this nice house, but you are not allowed. Why don't you talk practically? That is your foolishness, that you will not be allowed—that's a fact—but still, you are spoiling your energy. That is foolishness.
Harikeśa: Well, it's not exactly spoiling. We are really enjoying.
Prabhupāda: What enjoying?
Harikeśa: When it's too hot we can make it cooler. When it's too cool we can make it hotter.
Prabhupāda: But at the same time, you want to live and enjoy. That is not allowed. Everyone wants to live and enjoy. Hm? Otherwise why, when there is attack outside, why do you fight? The tendency is that "I shall live comfortably." Why these white Europeans have made so high plan? So that they may not be kicked out by the Africans. That is the tendency. Therefore they are making secure, Africans far away so that they may not come. You want to live securely, but that is not there. You may make political arrangement very secure, but what is the nature's arrangement? You'll be kicked out at any moment. There is no certainty. There is no guarantee even that you will be allowed to live for so many years. At any moment.
Harikeśa: But if we're always thinking of death, how can we enjoy life now?
Prabhupāda: But death is sure. If you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the point. (laughs) Death is sure. And if you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the proof. Suppose I am sitting here, we are walking here, and some danger is coming. It will immediately kill. So shall I remain here very peacefully? First of all make insurance, just like they make insurance, that no death will come. Your scientific advancement, your so many advancement, make it sure that you will not die. You will live here comfortably forever. Then you make your house nice, decorate it very... Where is that arrangement?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if death is sure in any case... If death is sure in any case, for the thinking man or for the nonthinking man, then why think about it?
Prabhupāda: No, non... For thinking men, for them there is no death; there is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between thinking men and nonthinking men. We are preparing for going... (break) There is... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligence. Now, suppose that here is open field. There is... We are walking very nicely. And the downtown, congested city, that is not very nice. So at least, if I don't spoil my energy to make the place uncomfortable, if I save my energy and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this open field, that is intelligence or that is intelligent? Which is intelligent? We are also going to die. That's all right. But we are going to die like intelligent person, not like cats and dogs. That is the difference.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is, though, that everyone has to work because they have to feed themselves and they have to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are working. We are not sitting idle. Now, for our food, if we just get some food by plowing some land for the animal, cows, and for me, and the cow is giving me milk, the tree are giving me fruit, why shall I work so hard? The business of dogs and hogs, whole day and night simply working for getting food and sense gratification? That is not civilization. Live peacefully, get your nice food, and save time to advance in spiritual life. This is civilization. And simply for little comfort for a few years I have wasted my time in so many humbug comforts. Actually that is... What is this comfort of the skyscraper building? I think it is a mechanical prison.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Matchbox also.
Prabhupāda: Matchbox.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said last night that without electricity it would be hell.
Prabhupāda: It is hell. And we are creating this hell.
Harikeśa: I don't know. I'm enjoying.
Prabhupāda: You are a rascal. That is the proof you are a rascal. (laughter)
Devotee (1): We need defense so we have to work hard to keep defense, economy. The common man has to contribute to the state to keep its defense.
Prabhupāda: Defense, that means...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's today... Unless there is very complex society...
Devotee (1): Otherwise we will be exploited.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless there is a very complex...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say change the society. Society means you and me. If we agree that this kind of civilization is wrong, then society, what does it mean? They have made the United Nations. What is that? For this purpose, that "Why we are fighting unnecessarily?" So make their settlement, how to live. What is the standard of civilization? What is the aim of life? What they are doing in the United Nation for the last thirty years? What they have done? They simply fighting, the same cats and dogs. What is the value?
Harikeśa: Whenever there is some war they send some observers.
Prabhupāda: That is cats and watchdog. That's all, watchdog. (laughter) That's all, civilization of cats and dogs.