Prabhupāda: So that is . . . That . . . That gift is given by God to everyone. That does not mean one is Bhagavān.
Jagadīśa: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the cheating of cheats."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Dr. Patel: The greatest number, sir, is being carried out here in Bombay some fifty miles away by this Muktananda Swami. His statue is being worshiped as, in place of God by . . .
Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is also.
Dr. Patel: That Muktananda.
Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is also doing, Satya Sai.
Dr. Patel: They say that they are worshiping the guru as God. And why not as their guru?
Prabhupāda: Rajaneesh.
Dr. Patel: Rajneesh calls himself Bhagavān, that man.
Prabhupāda: He also says "Bhagavān."
Dr. Patel: He's doing a sort of mass hypnotism, to my mind. Psychologically I try to analyze him.
Prabhupāda: Without analyzing, we take him as rogue. (laughter) That's all.
Dr. Patel: You . . . I, being a scientist, try to analyze. This is my nature.
Hari-śauri: Analysis is our nature, he said.
Dr. Patel: I try to analyze you also, sir. I try to analyze you.
Prabhupāda: No, our analysis is . . . analytical process, is very simple.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) I did it. And when I tried . . .
Trivikrama: What is that process, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: The process: if one is not kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he's a rogue.
Hari-śauri: Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama . . .
Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Bās, finished analysis. As soon as we see that he is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he must be a rogue. That's all. Duṣkṛtina, sinful. That's all.
Dr. Patel: About this guru, they have taken it in a very wrong way. Ādya-guru is Kṛṣṇa. That way you must go and worship that way.
Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ . . . (break) . . . see you are a rogue. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Trivikrama: So you have analyzed Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Dr. Patel: I have. And I found that only bhakti is the real way. And to correct myself I read out all the Vaiṣṇava literature. I know this Sanskrit. And then I . . . (continues talking to Trivikrama in background—indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (aside:) That's nice.(?) But first give me little cow's milk, cup—and put little flat rice, not too much, and little fruit. That's all.
Dr. Patel: So, sir, you are going by train to Kumbha-melā.
Prabhupāda: I like train.
Dr. Patel: I would have accompanied you if you had gone by plane. I would lose lot of time going and coming. While coming back, you will come out to ten days, five days.
Prabhupāda: No. Train, first class is very comfortable.