Bhakti-caru: They have got unions also, harijanas. How to approach the unions?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bhakti-caru: They have their unions. How can we approach the union and talk to the leaders?
Prabhupāda: Well, address him, that Dr . . . We are actually doing all over the world. Why not here?
Bhakti-caru: But the thing is Dr. Ambedkar is dead now. He was the leader of the harijanas.
Prabhupāda: Whoever may be, but they could not do anything. Neither they can do. They do not know how to elevate them. We know that. We can help. And we are actually doing it. The idea is they are feeling frustration for want of leader. We are prepared to guide them to the highest perfection of life. (pause) The defect was Gandhi started this harijana movement, keeping them where they are, and at the same time changing by rubber stamp, "harijana." That must be failure.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Unless you change the inner make-up of a man, he won't improve. They are thinking that by spending money, by giving a better home, by these things they'll improve. But we have practically seen in Madras on the beach, these harijanas were given some of the better houses, and they immediately they did one of two things: either they rented the house to someone else and kept living on the street, which is by their nature, or else they turned the house into the street.
Prabhupāda: Hell.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like hell. So unless you actually reform a person, just by artificially giving him money or if you stamp approval, it won't change anything. You have to change him. And they have no plan for that.