Pṛthu-putra: ...to show me. They were telling me that "You are going to see the representative of God." And when I came to that vision, I saw the person. At that time I didn't know who (it) was. But I had some doubts in my mind, and I was thinking, "Oh, that's probably another kind of propaganda." This was all in the dream. But when I came to that person sitting on the elevated seat in that forest, surrounded by many, many devotees, that person looked at me and proved to me that he was the representative of God. But after, I forgot. Maybe one year or something like this. One or two years after...
Prabhupāda: So there is no doubt about it that I am the representative of God.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But when I was...
Prabhupāda: Either you dream or not dream, I claim.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But this thing was just confirming. When I saw you the first time in Amsterdam, you were the same person that I saw in my dream one or two years previously.
Prabhupāda: That... You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Guru-tattva. Guru-tattva. So there it is clearly said that guru is the manifestation of God. So it is confirmed in the śāstra. And all the ācāryas accept it. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.
Satsvarūpa: But is it possible to also learn spiritual truths from this..., from representatives on the subtle plane?
Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.
Pṛthu-putra: Of course, that was never a doubt. That's just the way I came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when I saw you...
Prabhupāda: So the guru is the representative of God. That's all right. Then what is your misunderstanding?
Pṛthu-putra: So then after I had some other things. For example, when I went to Egypt, in these pyramids one day I had some kind of contact on the subtle plane with persons who were supposed to live inside of the pyramids, and they gave me some kind of instructions.
Prabhupāda: Inside of the pyramid?
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. That was (wasn't) in the dream. But people, they were quite clear.
Prabhupāda: These are just like we know gold and we know mountain...
Prabhupāda: ...and sometimes we mix together and we see golden mountain. So in dream we see like that. We have got hundreds and thousands of experiences in our this life and past life. They are all stocked there, and they can sometimes get like a bubbles. You have seen the bubbles come out? It is like that. We should not give much importance to these things. But it is a fact that bona fide spiritual master is bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. So there is no question of subtle or gross. It is a fact. That's all right.
Satsvarūpa: But we've been discussing, and Pṛthu-putra Mahārāja is saying that some devotees are very sensitive about thinking that they're having these experiences. And if we tell them, "Ignore this. It's not important," that will not be good for them, because they are definitely feeling visits from persons from another plane, and if you simply tell them, "No..."
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. You say that "You are fortunate that you're having, but do your business." That's all.
Pṛthu-putra: They want to feel satisfaction from Kṛṣṇa consciousness point of view.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Sometimes it may be fact. There is no wonder. But we have to proceed with the figure. If I dream that I am getting one lakh of rupees, so it is better if I get five rupees in figure. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Simply dreaming I am getting one lakh of rupees, that is good, or actually, if you get five rupees, that is good? Which is good?
Pṛthu-putra: To get the actual five rupees.
Prabhupāda: So don't depend on the subtle thing. See practically what you are getting.
Satsvarūpa: What I thought was most dangerous is...
Prabhupāda: Most dangerous... Those who are neophyte, they will be always in danger.
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes these...
Prabhupāda: Always in danger because they are neophytes, just like a child is always in danger. So how you can save them? He's always in danger. So as far as possible, let us try. He's going to the fire. He's going to the water. He's going to the animal. He's eating some poison. So always in danger. That childish age is dangerous. Therefore mother takes care. Danger is already there because he's neophyte, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. Therefore we have to abide by the injunction of the śāstra and guided by guru. That's all. That is our secure position. And otherwise danger always.
Pṛthu-putra: One boy in Paris, he had a visit...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, this is the position. Those who are neophyte, they are always in danger. Therefore their duty is to be guided by sādhu-śāstra-guru. That's all. That is our... Now, I'll say from my practical life... It is not pride. Actually everyone knows that my Guru Mahārāja had thousands of disciples. So out of thousands of disciples, practically I am little successful. That everyone knows. Why? Because I firmly believed in the words of my guru. That's all. This is the... There may be many other Godbrother, maybe very learned and very advanced, whatever it may be, favored, and... Everyone claims that "I am the most favorite." And practical point of view... So I think sometimes that "Why this wonderful thing has happened to me?" So I search out. I search out only that I cent percent believe in the words of my spiritual... That's all, nothing else. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā **. Don't think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success. You are daily singing, guru-mukha-padma-vākya **. You know the meaning?
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā.
Prabhupāda: This is the instruction. And the child decides it that "Whatever my parent says, that's all I shall do. I shall do nothing," then he's safe.
Satsvarūpa: "My only wish is to have my consciousness purified by the words emanating from his lotus mouth."
Prabhupāda: Then he's safe. And as soon as he manufactures—finished. So don't do this. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā... (ŚU 6.23). This is the secret of spiritual success. Vṛndāvana, there are so many dangerous. All these bābājīs, they are... "Oh, I am not going out of Vṛndāvana." But he has got connection with so many women. So what is the use? Have you experience of this? He's attached to women and doing all sinful activities in Vṛndāvana, and he's a devotee. "He cannot go out of Vṛndāvana." This is going on, manufacturing biḍi, smoking biḍi, in the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, loincloth, big tilaka, kaṇṭhi, and what he's doing? Biḍi-making. Have you seen?
Pṛthu-putra: I have seen some of them doing this, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not all of them. But they are also claiming they're on the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are preaching—we are lower stage. That is their opinion. We are preaching all over the world; we are in the lower stage. And because he has imitated the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, mālā, tilaka, and he's manufacturing biḍi-he's higher. This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned these rascals—that kali-celā—"the disciple of Kali." Ei ota eka kali-celā.(?) Here is a disciple of Kali. Who? Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. And sahajiyā bhajana kache mamu, saṅge lana pare bala.(?) He has tilaka and mālā, and sahajiyā, with other girls he's making parakīyā-rasa-bhajana. Kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā. So we have to guided by our predecessor ācāryas. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise we are condemned.
Pṛthu-putra: So when certain boys experience difficulties and they come to because...
Prabhupāda: What difficulty? What is the difficulty?
Pṛthu-putra: Well, for example...
Prabhupāda: We have got everything clearly stated, that we observe these regulative principle, chant, minimum sixteen rounds, and act as far as possible for the service of the Lord. Where is the difficulty?
Pṛthu-putra: Maybe the realization may not be there.
Prabhupāda: What is that realization? This is the prescribed duty. So there is no question of realization. You must do it.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. They must and they do also. They also do it.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the doubt? Let me go on with my duty. That's all. Why I shall be disturbed by so many things? Let me see whether I am discharging my duties properly. That's all.
Pṛthu-putra: That is what should be told to them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He may be very fortunate that he's dreaming. "All right, keep aside. Do your duty. You are very fortunate, but don't bother now. First of all be strong and follow." Otherwise ei chure pākā. Ei chure pākā. Ei chure (?) you know? Stunted jackfruit. Jackfruit becomes so big, but one fruit, it is so small and... Taya eka channi sa. (?) And it has become ripened. So it has no taste, neither it can be used for cooking-useless. Ei chure pākā. A small fruit ripen, it is useless either for this person or for that. So they are called in Bengali, ei chure pākā. Do your duty. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā..., āra nā koriho **. That is bhajana. And as soon as he deviates-yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. He is finished. That has happened to Nitāi. Ei chure pākā. So what these people will do? It is the effect of bad association. That's all.