Indian man (4): No, brahma-bhūta is...
Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) means first of all you understand your identity. You are now identifying yourself as Indian, or as brāhmaṇa, or as kṣatriya, or white, or black, and so many things.
Indian man (4): My first identification is my own body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is ajñāna. So long you are identifying with the body, you are no better than the animal. So we are doing that. We are fighting. "I am Indian. You are Englishman. You are this. You are that. You are..." Simply we are fighting, like cats and dogs, they fight. So that is ajñāna. How you can be prasannātmā? So when one becomes actually situated in spiritual life, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is the... In this way when you make further progress, when you actually understand that you are eternal servant of God, then you surrender. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This situation takes many, many births to cultivate. And when he actually understands, jñānavān—not fools, rascals—then māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That mahātmā is very rare to be found. So bhakti is not so easy. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. It is not so easy. It takes many, many births to come to the understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā.
Indian man (4): Does the soul which passes from body to body, does it or he experience the pains and pleasures of my body?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. You just strike one dog—"Ka! Ka! Ka!" Why? Does not feel pain? And Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved even the trees, they feel pains and pleasure.
Indian man (4): It may be the soul which...
Prabhupāda: It is the stage. It is stage. Just like the tree. If you cut, it does not feel so much pains and pleasure as a human being. It is the development of consciousness. So in human form of body the consciousness is developed. Therefore he can understand what is his position. And therefore for human being there are śāstras—the Vedas, the Purāṇas—to understand his position. The tree cannot take advantage of the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. A cat cannot take advantage.
Indian man (4): Even an animal cannot.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if we do not take advantage of the opportunity of understanding my identification, then we are committing suicide, jumping like cats and dogs, that's all. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Such persons have been described as go-kharaḥ. Go means cows, and khara means ass.
Indian man (3): Khara means?
Prabhupāda: Ass. I think this khara is word is used by Urdu. Phir vamusthi vrsti kharaḥ. (little discussion in Urdu or Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). One who identifies his body.
Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.