Indian man: Sir, you said surrender, manasā vācā karmaṇā mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja. Now, does it mean that the initiative from the human being is completely surrendered to the almighty God? And if you surrender, is that, is there any initiative left for the human being?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because without we..., our present position is to defy the existence of God. This is our present position in material life. "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God." This is defying the authority of God. Therefore to understand God, you have to surrender; otherwise it is not possible. You cannot defy and at the same time understand God. That is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). You cannot understand God by challenging. Why God? Suppose we, we go to the president of our country. If I challenge, "Mr. President, what is your value? Can you tell me what you are?" you cannot know him. No. You have to surrender. You have to become friendly and serve him, please him. Then he'll understand. Sevonmukhe hi jivhādau svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. You cannot challenge. Just like the sun is not visible at night. If you challenge, "O sun, can you show me where you are?" No. You have to wait for his mercy. In the morning, you'll see. This is the process.
Indian man: Sir, my question still remains unanswered. I said when human being surrenders completely, as I said, manasā vācā karmaṇā...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: Now the initiative is completely taken away from the human being.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: How is a human being going to continue in this world if it has to exist, and if the initiative is not left to the human being, as you say that God is there and God has to be accepted? But my father, his father, his great-godfather, everyone say that God exists. I'll be also telling my son, and his son, and his son. This is, this is passing on the very existence of God from mouth to mouth. And now, because there is a word like "God," do we blindly surrender to Him, an identity which human being has not seen...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Indian man: No one in the world has seen that there is God? And...
Prabhupāda: You cannot say that no one has seen. You have not seen.
Indian man: I have not seen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. (laughter)
Indian man: Yes, but there may be...
Prabhupāda: You cannot say others.
Indian man: ...that I take your word, and I...
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, you should withdraw. You have not seen. But you cannot say others have not seen.
Indian man: I have not seen. That's why I...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you have to learn how to see. Then you have to learn how to see. You cannot see; you remain ignorant, fool, and you want to see God. You have to learn how to see God.
Indian man: But then, sir, so we, do we...?
Prabhupāda: First of all, you take this, that you do not know what is God. Now, you want to see God. Therefore you have to learn how to see God.
Indian man: Sir, I, I presumed right from the beginning that some human being surrenders to God...
Prabhupāda: That is the first principle.
Indian man: That is surrender.
Prabhupāda: That is the first principle.
Indian man: How is the initiative left to the human being? I, I...
Prabhupāda: That we are teaching. We are teaching, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's version. Our version is, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore there is no difference between the versions.
Indian man (3): But he says that why should that surrender should be, when we know that we are..., God right within ourselves...?
Prabhupāda: Because you are... Because you are becoming old and you do not want to become old; therefore to save yourself, not to become old, you have to surrender.
Indian man: When we have the right knowledge, we have peace, and we have to maintain. That's all.