Indian man (1): ...exist?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly. Certainly.
Indian man (1): Have you seen?
Prabhupāda: And you have not seen so many things. Does it mean that does not exist? You are researching. You have not seen. As a scientist...
Indian man (1): I have heard lots of ghost stories, but...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not stories. We are hearing from Bhāgavata. It is authority. We are not hearing the stories of a third-class man. We are hearing from Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva...
Indian man (1): But you see, up till now, in my long life of eighty years...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you have not so many experiences. That does not mean these things does not exist. Your experience is not all in all. Don't think like that. So these are existing actually. That is the defect, that you do not accept the authorities. That is the defect. Here Vyāsadeva is describing, who is called Vedavyāsa, full of all knowledge, and Bhāgavata is a mature experience. We are hearing from him. Why you should not believe? I may not have experience. This ghost means the living entity is subtle life without any material body. That is ghost. When one is very sinful, he does not get the material body. He lives in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. That is ghostly life. And they display. Because they have no body, one cannot see, but they display so many mischiefs. That is ghostly life. (break) Seeing or not seeing doesn't matter. Therefore it is enjoined in the Vedānta-sūtra, śāstra cakṣuṣā.
Indian man (1): But it should be proved.
Prabhupāda: It is true because it is spoken by Vyāsadeva. How you say it is false? You cannot say that. That is blasphemy.
Indian man (1): In olden days there used to be the ghosts and all these things, but now that is gradually...
Prabhupāda: But gradually... That does not mean you have improved very much. Because you do not believe in the ghost...
Indian man (1): Our mental condition has improved.
Prabhupāda: No, that does not mean... There are ghosts. Ghost means subtle life. It is not gross. So people know and has got some idea of the ghost, but they have no descriptive idea. Here is a descriptive idea. That is śāstra. Just like less than the śūdras, it is called pañcamas. How many pañcamas are there, that is described in the Bhāgavata. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). That is śāstra. Gives full explanation, full knowledge. Śāstra cakṣuṣā. We have to accept through the śāstra. Not that "Because I have not seen, therefore it is false." No. Vyāsadeva has no business to tell you something false. Otherwise he would not have been accepted as the supreme guru by all the sampradāyas. You cannot defy Vyāsadeva. He is saying, you have to accept. "I have seen. I have no experience," that doesn't matter. So many things you do not know. Just like a child has no experience what is the other side of the sea. Does it mean that there is nothing? A child may say like that, but a person who has visited the Arabian countries and others, "Oh no, no, no. There are so many things." So experience should be taken from a person who has got real experience. Not that "Because I cannot see, it is void." That is not experience.
Girirāja: Do ghosts refer to categories of ghosts or particular famous? These names...
Prabhupāda: Yes, categories. Yes. There are so many. Just like human beings. Human beings. There are Americans, Indians and Africans and so many, so... One knows that human being, and one knows in descriptive way. So whose knowledge is perfect?
Girirāja: Descriptive.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is descriptive.
Girirāja: (reading) "And similar other evil spirits will cause persons to forget..."
Prabhupāda: Evil spirit everyone believes, every country. In London there are so many ghosts. When I was in John Lennon's house, so they complained, "In this one house, every night a ghost comes." You see? So I advised them "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It will go away." Then it actually so happened.
Yaśomatīnandana: In many of our temple buildings also...
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I have got experience. In our Calcutta house, there was ghost. In Lucknow when I started that laboratory in Mr. Bhattacarya's house in Vat-nagara(?), there was a ghost. I have practical experience. My servant...
Indian man (1): I have heard a few cases. You see. I was reported that they see in that house there was ghost, and he used to put clothes to fire and they have to run for water to extinguish it. Then I went and examined. He was a friend of mine. Then I ultimately detected that his own wife got hysterical and used to do all those things.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. But...
Indian man (1): You see? So I discovered that there is no ghost, and I explained to them...
Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. Sometimes we are misled. But ghosts, in every country, there are so many books, and especially it is mentioned in the Vedic literature also. Bhūta-preta-yoni. Bhūta-preta-yoni. That is described. Out of many forms of life, these bhūta-preta-yonis is also. Nana-yoni. Nana-yoni. There are different sources of birth. So bhūta-preta-yoni is also mentioned there, species of life. (break) Bhūta-preta is mentioned.
Indian Man (2): Kṛṣṇa says, bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. (break)
Girirāja: "...for other evil spirits who cause persons to forget their own existence and give trouble to the life air and the senses. Sometimes they appear in dreams and cause much perturbation. Sometimes they appear as old women and suck the blood of small children. But all such ghosts and evil spirits cannot remain where there is chanting of the holy name of God."
Prabhupāda: That's it. (break) ...Viṣṇu. That is the injunction. Of Viṣṇu. In the Pañjikā, you will find in the Bengali Pañjikā, when there is some auspicious sign, they have recommended, "Chant the name of Viṣṇu." Have you seen in the Pañjikā? Yes. (break)
Girirāja: "...and persons who are still following the Vedic ways, especially householders, keep at least one dozen cows and worship the Deity of Lord Viṣṇu..." (break)
Prabhupāda: In Indian villages—I have seen in Bengal—they keep cows, and they have got Viṣṇu śilā, especially in the house of a brāhmaṇa, all high caste (?). Yes. (break) Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father was a demon, but he was never afraid of Him. He was challenging, "Oh, my father..." He never said, "Father." He said, asura-varya: "the best of the demons." Tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. When his father asked him, "My dear Prahlāda..." After all, he was child. "What you have learned best?" So he said, tat sādhu manye asura-varya. He is addressing his father, asura-varya, "the best of the demons." Tat sādhu manye: "I consider it very nice thing." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām.
Dr. Patel: So you think we are demons also.
Prabhupāda: No. (lots of laughter) Demons would not come daily to see Kṛṣṇa's ārati. That they'll not. That they'll not. No. I say that...
Dr. Patel: Tomorrow we are going to walk all the distance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I say that we devotees, we are not afraid even of demons. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). He asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing, in school?" He said, "My dear asura-varya," not father, "My dear best of the demons, I think this is the best thing." "What is that?" "Now, these people," sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, "always anxious, full of anxiety..." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because they accepted this material world as all in all." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: "On account of their accepting this material world as everything, therefore they are full of anxiety. Now, to get out of this anxiety, so-hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam-ātma-pātaṁ, suicidal place, gṛha, household life, they should give up." Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. "And then what you will do?" "Oh." vanaṁ gato: "He should give up and go to the forest." "And then?" Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "And take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. I understand this is the best thing." And his father become more angry. "What this rascal is speaking?" like that. (laughing) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. He's all right? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. (break)