Paramahaṁsa: People argue that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore we must enjoy."
Prabhupāda: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is his intelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?
Paramahaṁsa: But people today have reasoned God is dead with their intelligence.
Prabhupāda: God is not dead. Your intelligence is dead. You have got a dead body, and you are proud of it. Eh? Decoration of the dead body. And you are decorating the dead body. The body's dead. That's a fact. Because as soon as you, soul, get out, it is dead body. But the body's already there. That means I am occupying a dead body. So long I am there, it is working only. But the body's dead. And you are decorating the dead body. You are so intelligent. You are interested with a dead body. And you have no intelligence to see that actually it is dead body. Because as soon as I will go away, it is dead body. The body is dead, but... Just like motor car. It is dead. If there is no petrol, it is dead. Similarly, your body is dead. Now try to understand. And if somebody decorates a dead body, is he very intelligent?
Bhagavān: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Your all acquisition is decoration of the dead body. That is a verse, aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Loka-rañjanam. You can get some rascal and fool, some applause, "Oh, you are so nice. You are decorating dead body." But intelligent man will say "What a fool he is that he's decorating a dead body. That's all."
Yogeśvara: It's like the story of the emperor's new clothes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: There's a story about an emperor who commissioned a tailor to make some clothes for him. So the commissioner, the tailor, outsmarted him and told the king, "I have made you invisible clothes."
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs)
Yogeśvara: So the king said, "Oh, how wonderful. I'm the only person with such clothes." So he wore the invisible clothes and went out in public. And because he was the king, everyone was saying, "Oh, just see how beautiful clothes he has." But then one simple person said: "Why is the king walking naked?"
Prabhupāda: So a simple person is more intelligent than the so-called sophisticated citizens. Decorating the dead body. I think in my Back to Godhead I wrote this article.
Bhagavān: One old Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: One old Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Decoration of the dead body."
Satsvarūpa: They might ask why we decorate the Deity if we say that.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Why do we decorate the, a stone Deity?
Prabhupāda: Because it is not dead; it is living. They can put forward this argument. But that you do not know, that we are not decorating... We are, we are decorating the real body. Now what will be your question next?
Satsvarūpa: You say it's a real body, but it appears to be stone.
Prabhupāda: Why stone? Stone is also God's body. You don't know that? Do you know it or not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, in the Universal Form.
Prabhupāda: No. Universal Form... Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Bhūmi means the earth. "That is My body."
Yogeśvara: But there are no... They would say that there are no symptoms of life in the Deity.
Prabhupāda: No, there is life, but you have no eyes to see. There is life. He's the supreme life. Only premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38), one who is devotee, he can see. Otherwise, are we fools, rascals, that we are worshiping a dead body? Do you mean to say after reading so many books, we are worshiping stone? You have no eyes. You have to create that eyes to see that "Here is personally Kṛṣṇa present, arcāvatāra."
Bhagavān: They can't even see that in an animal other than human there's soul. So how can they understand the Deity?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: They can't...
Prabhupāda: So therefore they have to become our student and become our disciple to understand this science. Otherwise, why there is propaganda if we remain the same fool and rascal? That, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that the stone is also, that is virāḍ-rūpa. That is also Kṛṣṇa.
Satsvarūpa: But by that argument, then, this body is also Kṛṣṇa, made of earth and water.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But you are thinking you are. That is Kṛṣṇa's. Therefore this body should be engaged for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You, as soon as you accept this body is Kṛṣṇa's, then you cannot employ it for other purposes. But that realization you have no. Why do you say it is Kṛṣṇa's? You are thinking your body. Or you are body. Where is that consciousness?
Paramahaṁsa: The impersonalists argue when they read the verse, ahaṁ sarvasya bhūteṣu...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Paramahaṁsa: They argue that Kṛṣṇa's in the heart of every living entity.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Therefore, every living entity is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Why? If I am in the room, I am room? Is that very good argument? Because I am in this room, I have become room? Is that argument very sound? Kṛṣṇa is within this body. I am also within this body. But does it mean I am body, or Kṛṣṇa is this body?
Devotees: No.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is everything; again Kṛṣṇa is... That is... What is the verse? mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: "I am spread all over the universe in My impersonal feature." Jagad avyakta-mūrti..., mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything is in Me." Nāhaṁ te..., "But I am not there." This is called simultaneously one and different. Acintya-bheda, that one has to understand. Where there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is different from Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: The other religions do not give any...
Prabhupāda: We are not talking of religions. We are talking of science.
Bhagavān: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So don't bring in any religion. A type of religion is made, "Believe something blindly." So that is not our concern. We are talking of the science. If I say that stone is also Kṛṣṇa, is not that the science?
Bhagavān: It's the science of how God's energies are working.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if I say heat is also fire. Is there any wrong?
Bhagavān: No.
Prabhupāda: Is there any wrong?
Devotees: No.
Prabhupāda: Heat is also fire. But at the same time, heat is not fire. What is the difficulty to understand? If I say heat is also fire, but it is not fire, where is the wrong?
Devotee: Heat comes from the fire.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the fire quality is there. Heat is the quality of the fire. Just like I taste sugar. The sweetness is also sugar. And the form is also sugar.
Yogeśvara: Well, they would say, "If stone is also Kṛṣṇa, then why aren't we worshiping all stone?"
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: Then why don't we worship all... Here is also some stone. Why don't we worship this?
Prabhupāda: You worship. Because you are rascal, you worship.
Yogeśvara: No, they...
Prabhupāda: We, we worship Kṛṣṇa in His form, but you are formless. You worship that stone. When we make the form of Kṛṣṇa in stone, then we worship, not that any stone. Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, that does not mean I have to worship the dog. That you worship. Because you are impersonalist, you worship dog. And you are doing that. In the morning, you take a dog and worship it. That is your business. Our business is to worship the form of Kṛṣṇa. That is the, required. (pause)
Bhagavān: Could we say that anyone who is engaged in glorifying the body is actually engaged in idol worship?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bhagavān: Anyone who's engaged in...
Prabhupāda: That is already answered. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body is Myself, but still, I am not there." So you cannot say by worshiping your body, you're worshiping Kṛṣṇa. At that time, he's not there, although the body's also Kṛṣṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: Sometimes, they argue, "How do you know this Deity is Kṛṣṇa, and this one isn't? Because each Deity looks a little different to the material eyes."
Prabhupāda: So we have to pluck out the material eyes. Then you'll see that it is all right. First of all, let me pluck out your material eyes. Then you'll see. Therefore it is said, premāñjana-cchurita: "Eyes with love of Godhead." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He saw Jagannātha Deity, Jagannātha Deity's not very beautiful. But immediately He saw Kṛṣṇa and fainted. You have to make that eyes, then you'll see. So your present eye have to be plucked out. Then you'll see. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Who is that statue? You are...?
Paramahaṁsa: It's a decoration.
Bhagavān: Where do we go?
Paramahaṁsa: There's a promenade around the fountain.
Prabhupāda: So they have made this art. Suppose a real man and woman stands here. Will it be considered as art or criminal?
Paramahaṁsa: It would be considered criminal to them.
Prabhupāda: Then? Their art is criminal.
Paramahaṁsa: But their argument is that when you glorify the body of man with...
Prabhupāda: We don't glorify the body of... Who glorifies the body of man? We say it is dead body. Dead body means that does not need glorification. It is condemned. We say dead body, decoration of the dead body. We don't say art.
Paramahaṁsa: Catholic Renaissance Art, they glorified the dead body. Leonardo da Vinci, they glorified the body of man.
Prabhupāda: That is called bhūtejya. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as worshiping the material elements. That's all. Here in western countries, that is the prominent thing, bhūtejya. (pause) What is the other side? Lion? (pause, break) They cover with some cloth, some loose cloth. Is it not?
Bhagavān: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is French art, to make naked?
Devotee: Yes.
Bhagavān: Little more advanced.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Therefore nowadays students are walking naked in America. Advanced, more advanced.