Lilāvatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We were thinking that unless the African people can see an example of a devotee, they won't continuously chant. They will chant while we are there and then they will forget.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you become an example yourself?
Lilāvatī: So to live amongst them, we were thinking, is very important.
Prabhupāda: You become an example by your behavior. Example is better than precept. (break)
Jñāna: ...to attain the necessary finances to support the programs here.
Prabhupāda: Beg. Sell book. That's all. Otherwise how you get finance?
Jñāna: One idea is to have a farm that we sell fruit or vegetables, like that.
Prabhupāda: If you open farm for financial help, then it will not be successful. You should take to farming for supporting yourself. That's all. Grow your own food. Grow your own cloth. There is no need of financial help from outside. You get your food grains sufficiently, rice, dahl, wheat, vegetables, milk, sugar. Bas You get everything. From these five, six items you should be economically free. That you have to do, not for trade to get money. Then it will be failure.
Indian lady (3): Can we purchase the house for our own staying?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building. What is the use? Just have a cottage and have garden. You'll live very peacefully. But they're constructing big, big skyscraper building in the downtown, and they will have to come here by car for some peace of mind, and in the meantime, accident, police. This is the civilization, nonsense civilization. At weekend they will go to the village, country, and during the week-time they will work hard. This is their civilization, with the risk of life, running motor car eighty miles' speed. Every moment there is risk. What is this civilization? Most ludicrous civilization. So farming means if you live in a farm... Just like in New Vrindaban they are doing. Produce your own food, live peacefully, fresh vegetable, fresh grains, fresh milk, and prepare so many nice milk preparation, kachori, halavā with ghee. Offer to the Deity. Eat sufficiently. What is the use of going outside? Simple life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you can organize that, that will be very nice.
Jñāna: A nice program here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this rascal civilization, whole day "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" Everyone. Busy means "Where is money? Where is money?" Just like the hog, he is busy: "What time...? Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" That is not civilization. If you remain always busy, "Where is stool?" like the hog, then what is your civilization? Whole day working, night, nightshift, dayshift, whole day, the same, like hog.
Brahmānanda: They hold more than one job. They have two jobs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Get money and then drink wine and eat meat and do all nonsense things. This is their civilization.
Jñāna: A farm means also we may engage the people because they are not so...
Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority. Don't." But you are being kicked every moment: still, there is no authority? Just see obstinacy. Why you are becoming old? Every moment you are being kicked. You cannot remain young. You are trying to remain young with pomade, with some color, with some this, tea, wig, and... But you cannot, rascal. You cannot. You must become old. And still, he is thinking that he'll be able to remain young. This is called dog's obstinacy. He has got experience that nobody can remain young. I'll also not remain young also, although I want it, "Yes, if I can remain young, that is good facility." That he knows, but he won't find the way how he can remain... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nitya. That path he will not take. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the way." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam adyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam (Bs. 5.33). Kṛṣṇa, the oldest man, oldest living being, but nava-yauvana, always fresh, young... You can get that position. You can play also, play Kṛṣṇa. But that path they will not take. Kṛṣṇa, ever-existingly young man, He is displaying in Vṛndāvana and inviting, "You can also come and join and live like this." "No. That's all. It is all fictitious. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There is no such thing." Immediately dismiss judgment. And by pomade, by injection, by, what is called? Hormone? All these rascals, they are trying to be young. Just see. You are doctor. Can you make young men with this...
Indian lady (3): Temporary they give hormone.
Prabhupāda: What is this temporary? Temporary means...
Indian lady (3): Temporary they get to be God.
Prabhupāda: One Marwari man, very rich man, he eighty years old, he wanted to change the hormones to remain...
Indian lady (3): Yes. That was in Indore.
Prabhupāda: Indore, yes.
Indian lady (3): Kukumcha.
Prabhupāda: Kukumcha. Yes, you know.
Indian lady (3): He got the glands from the monkey.
Prabhupāda: Just see. But where is now Kukumcha?
Indian lady (3): Now he is no more.
Prabhupāda: So Kukum, finished. (laughter) Kukum means order. So he thought... Kukum means order.
Indian lady (3): He was very rich. He used to...
Prabhupāda: I know that. In Calcutta, Kukumcha. This firm was very big. One of the richest Marwari. So eighty years old, he wanted to change the hormone to become young. Not only... There are many Marwaris. You know the (name witheld)? (name witheld)? His elder brother, (name witheld). His only business is to keep one wife and have a big establishment. He has got four, five wives—one Bengali, one U.P., one Marwari, one this—and each wife's establishment not less than ten thousand per month. And his business is morning to this wife and evening to this wife and noon to this wife, this wife. And he is old man. The wives do not care for him, and she is doing everything whatever, with the secretary. That's all. It is going on. I have seen. I was guest in his home, and this rascal is doing this. He is earning money, black market, white market, this mar... At any cost, and spending like this. That's all. There are many persons. Oh, in Europe also, the same thing. In Paris very, very old men, seventy-five years old, eighty years, they go to the night club. Entrance fee fifty dollar, then pay for the woman, wine. Spend few hours and spend two hundred, three hundred, five hundred dollars-go home. Then tranquilizer pill and sleep. This is going on. Therefore mūḍha.