Prabhupāda: ...simply man looks after the animals, that he's strong and happy, they'll get food grains, the cooperation, and both of them happy. But they're not looking to that. They are trying to sell the grains and get more money, and purchase wine and enjoy. And when the animal will be unable to work, sell him to the slaughterhouse and get money. And for these sinful activities, they are suffering.
Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.
Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye SB 3.31.1 . Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... SB 3.31.1. Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11) , "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.
Lokanātha: They want to be desireless.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Madhudviṣa: If the Māyāvādīs don't believe in the difference between the soul and the Supersoul, then how can they... What is their explanation of reincarnation?
Prabhupāda: They say that this is not incarnation, it is māyā. Just like the sky is covered in a pot, and as soon as the pot breaks, the sky mixes with the big sky. That's all. That is their theory.
Madhudviṣa: So therefore they say God is covered.
Prabhupāda: Not God. You are covered.
Pañcadraviḍa: But you are God, they say.
Prabhupāda: So you are God, but you are covered by this body. So as soon as the body is finished, you mix with. Just like you take one pot and you take water. The water is there, but if you break this pot, the water comes and mixes with.
Pañcadraviḍa: Then what is their reason for not becoming the biggest rascal? Why not become the biggest rascal? The pot's going to break anyway. What difference does it make? Why not become a big rascal and enjoy?
Madhudviṣa: Because the Māyāvādīs, they also perform some austerity and tapasya.
Prabhupāda: Just to break the pot. That is their (indistinct)
Madhudviṣa: But what is the breaking of the pot?
Lokanātha: The pot doesn't refer to the body but the illusion. They want to get rid of not the body but the illusion.
Prabhupāda: No, illusion in this sense, that I am covered by the pot, it will break or I shall break, and when it is broken then there is no more pot. I become one with the sky.
Madhudviṣa: So why should you endeavor for it? It's going to happen anyway.
Prabhupāda: To break it as soon as possible. (laughter)
Pañcadraviḍa: That doesn't make any sense. "Crackpot philosophy."
Madhudviṣa: If there's no individuality, I can't understand how can there be any desire for...
Prabhupāda: No, there is individuality, but these people do not understand it, because... In the Bhagavad-gītā, acchedyam. It is not that part is taken. The accedya. Because spirit cannot be cut into pieces, and while it is in piece, either you take it in part or something else, that is eternal. It is not that by the māyā we have become piece. Yes. That is not māyā. It is piece. All right, sanātana, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7), eternally that piece.
Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.
Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.