Prabhupāda: This will be New Gokula.
Reporter: New Gokula. Hm, hm, it's very good.
Prabhupāda: They've got New Vrindaban, New Navadvīpa, New Jagannātha Purī, New Dvārakā...
Pradyumna: New Gayā...
Prabhupāda: ...New Gayā, and this is the New Gokula. You are in touch in politics, therefore I'm talking something of politics, that the politicians of India, they wanted the..., from the British government, India, a strong united nation. But they could not achieve that goal. Pakistan was taken away. They're now lamenting, or there is some, always unsettled anxiety due to Pakistan. So... So far this movement is concerned, we are spreading the Indian culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all over the world. So the politicians are lamenting for division of India, and here is a movement that everyone will glorify India for this culture. Why do they not join? It is practical.
Reporter: Yeah. But the trouble is that politicians are not interested in Indian culture; they're interested in power.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they're mūḍhas.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So India cannot be happy being guided by the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. It is not possible. This request I made to Gandhi That "You are..." People accepted him as a spiritual man all over the world. So if Gandhi would have taken this movement sincerely and scientifically, it would have grown thousand times.
Reporter: Yes, yes. But that... What Gandhi said? Did he reply to your request?
Prabhupāda: No.
Reporter: No. Hm.
Prabhupāda: But it did not go to his hand-hands of his secretary. They thought, "What is this nonsense propaganda? Now let us become prime minister."
Reporter: (laughs) Yes. But how problems of India, like poverty...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Reporter: Like poverty, and this lack of balance between rich and poor. How these problems can be solved?
Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. "You want food, shelter and cloth? Produce here, and remain here. Don't be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and engage in industries." But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted, overnight, to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.
Reporter: Hm. Hm. I agree.
Prabhupāda: The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi should have followed Gandhi's principles—from political point of view. Village organization. But they won't do that.
Devotee: (to guests:) Some kṣīra?
Reporter: Oh!
Prabhupāda: That's all? Don't get more?
Reporter: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: They actually, by destroying the Manchester millionaires, Gandhi gave opportunity to the Ahmadabad millionaires. And the consumers, instead of purchasing Manchester cloth at one rupee per pair, now they're purchasing at thirty rupees per pair.
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is advantage. I know. My father had cloth business. The Manchester cloth, very nice cloth—one rupee six annas per pair, retail sale.
Reporter: Hm. Hm. Now same thing for thirty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And where the money is going? To the Ahmadabad capitalists. That's all.
Reporter: Hm. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So frying pan. From frying pan to the fire.
Reporter: (laughs) Yes. Very true.
Prabhupāda: Everything is due to lack of God consciousness.
Reporter: Quite true. And therefore, nothing is working.
Prabhupāda: No. (pause)
Reporter: I'm not going by car, as you said. (everyone laughs)
Prabhupāda: Are you not plucking your hairs?
Reporter: I was plucking. Eighteen times, all these hair. Two times in the one year, plucking all hair.
Devotee: The whole head, you pull your...?
Reporter: Whole head, yes. It's an extreme form of a...
Devotee: Austerity.
Reporter: Ah?
Devotee: It's an austerity.
Reporter: Yes. And then I came to... I left it, and came to Benares, and...
Prabhupāda: So when you joined this (indistinct-Sarboddha?) movement? At Benares?
Reporter: Yes. I was meet... I met Vinoba Bhave, and...
Prabhupāda: He's still living?
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy?
Reporter: His philosophy is... He is a bhak..., a devotee, I think. He is very much a devotee. But he is also preaching what Gandhi was preaching, for village organization and simple living and producing food and clothes, in the village, and not going to the city. This is his principle, on the economy scale. And on the spiritual end, religious, he's a brahma-vidyā. He's seeking brahma-vidyā. And he has in Padnab(?) Brahma-vidya Mandir.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Reporter: So he is... He is a follower of Śaṅkarācārya.
Prabhupāda: Mukti, bhukti.
Reporter: Ah?
Prabhupāda: Mukti.
Reporter: Mukti, yes.
Prabhupāda: Piśācī.
Reporter: Hm? (everyone laughs)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Bhukti-mukti-piśācī.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Bhukti and mukti. So they have manufactured so many "isms." Bhukti-ism and mukti-ism. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up all these isms. Simply take surrender unto Me, that's all." This is real love.
Reporter: Yes. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Reporter: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (end)