Prabhupāda: And atmavat-sarva bhūteṣu: and feeling for everyone as he is feeling the pains and pleasures. If one has attained this stage, then he is paṇḍita. He never says these degrees. No.
Dr. Patel: These degrees are artifacts.
Prabhupāda: That is upādhi. Education is to become upādhi-less. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). But they are increasing upādhis. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: People think so far this country is concerned that education means giving the knowledge of how to read and write. I think it is the knowledge and not the education. Education is something different, that trains up your mind how to think, how to, I mean, separate grain from the chaff.
Prabhupāda: Education means . . . (indistinct) . . . athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is education.
Dr. Patel: No, but I mean to say, you must know how to separate the grain from the chaff. That is the real idea. We are not training our boys. We are not. . .
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā begins education, instruction. Immediately He puts forward that you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. Where is such education? Everyone is . . . "You are this body." "You are Indian," "You are American," "You are Hindu," "You are Muslim." Where is education? Bhagavad-gītā says you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. And now education means be nationalist. Drive away and bark somebody. . .
Dr. Patel: (Hindi about passport)
Prabhupāda: No, why passport? Even in our country, Mahatma Gandhi was also infected: "Quit India. Quit India."
Dr. Patel: No, he did not mean quit India. He meant "You quit your matter of ruling." I mean, actually. . .
Prabhupāda: It was the exact word, "Quit India."
Dr. Patel: You know it more than me, sir, that in 1929 he told Britishers that "You rule India on the basis of they are ruling Canada." So he offered to give them ultimatum. Britishers did not know real stuff of India, otherwise they would have acted better.
Prabhupāda: That's not . . . as soon as you think, "He is my enemy and he is my friend," then there is no education.
Dr. Patel: That's it.
Prabhupāda: This is standard of education. Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. That is education. Sama darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva (BG 5.18). That is education. That is paṇḍita. Again Kṛṣṇa says, nanu śocantipaṇḍitāḥ. Nanu śocantipaṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). "Ah, you are rascal." It is not the business of the paṇḍita to think like that. He never taught that the Kauravas were the enemy. No. That is not the fact. It is duty to fight the just cause. That was His instruction.
Dr. Patel: Mr. Nehru said Kṛṣṇa was the greatest warmonger.
Prabhupāda: And he is a rascal.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) He was saying so. He thought himself to be very big man. He thought himself . . .
Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks. Everyone thinks. That is asuric position—"Who is like me?"
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) viṣṇu-māyā.
Prabhupāda: That is asuric. And bhakta . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā (CC Adi 17.31). That is bhakta. There is no education; therefore Kṛṣṇa has spoken of these people as mūḍha. "No, they are educated. They have passed so many examination"—māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This kind of education has no value, because they are forgetting the real point of education. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15).