Prabhupāda: So trouble, that is, atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, how to mitigate or finish all trouble, that they do not know. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). So long you will get this body, you will have trouble. But that they do not know, how to stop getting another body. So trouble is not mitigated in that way. You increase your entanglement, become sinful—you again take another body to suffer this sinful reaction.
(break) . . . that requires complete overhauling. This religion, that religion will not help. They have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. Everyone is hovering on the mental plane.
(break) . . . the principle of Baha'i religion?
Jayatīrtha: It was founded in Persia. It's a hodgepodge principle. (Prabhupāda laughs)
Jagadīśa: They think that everyone is evolving; that after taking this human life, you have to go to heaven.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jagadīśa: After taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. That's the next stage, even if you're the most sinful of all sinners.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?
Jagadīśa: Yes. Because they say that God is all-merciful, therefore. . .
Prabhupāda: You can do whatever you like.
Brahmānanda: God becomes the order-supplier.
Jayatīrtha: They have a big temple.
Prabhupāda: This is Baha'i temple?
Jagadīśa: No, no, it's back the other way.
Jayatīrtha: It's much bigger than this building?
Jagadīśa: Yes, it's quite a. . . very nice.
(break) (on walk)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) . . . buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. Will these people accept this? Hmm?
Jayatīrtha: They won't like to.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By our preaching we have to make them accept it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually that's a fact.
Sudāmā: We have to set an example for them to see.
Prabhupāda: What is the example?
Sudāmā: That this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, actually it does work, it does make us purified.
Prabhupāda: "No. It works with you. It doesn't work with me," he will say. You have to prove that they are animals. How you will prove it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By showing the activities of the animals and their activities to be the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have to judge that "What is the difference between animal's activities and our so-called civilized man's activities?"
Sudāmā: When you compare them to the animals, then they become insulted.
Prabhupāda: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest"? A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So . . . So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that? Hmm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality, then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?
Satsvarūpa: Many people today are willing to accept that. They say, "Yes, we're animals. We should enjoy our animal nature."
Prabhupāda: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?
Satsvarūpa: The human body means you have responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they say, "Whatever you do, it is all right." In the human body you cannot do like that. If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God?
Sudāmā: Just like they have laws, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa has.
Prabhupāda: Well, laws come. . . Wherefrom the laws come? It comes from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādyasya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. Otherwise, where you get the idea? That is the definition in the Vedānta. Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. Janmādyasya yataḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said: ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So we shall go?
(break) . . .them directly that "You are animal." And let him go to the court, and we shall prove that he is animal. (break) . . .them he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that "You are animal. If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court." (break) . . .these "isms"—nationalism, Communism, socialism, this "ism"—these are all animalism, nothing but animalism.
(break) . . .big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, and these persons are engaged, the same business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a big fish, bigger fish.
Prabhupāda: Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. He has to make some tackle. He is less than fish. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And when he catches it, he eats it.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After catching, he eats it.
Prabhupāda: No, the fish—immediately. He has to cook, he has to. . . another thing. That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating. (break) . . .has taken this photograph?
Brahmānanda: Yes, she did yesterday. (break)
Devotee (1): . . .why do some of them carry these sticks?
Prabhupāda: Sticks?
Tripurāri: Daṇḍa.
Prabhupāda: To drive away dogs. (laughter) (break)
(in car)
Jayatīrtha: . . . different species of human life.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jayatīrtha: The 400,000 different species of human life? There's one place in which you mention that different persons like carpenter or different tradesmen are different species. Is that. . .?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Jayatīrtha: What's the. . .
Prabhupāda: That is division. Varṇa. That is called varṇa.
Jayatīrtha: Ācchā. So that has nothing to do with species. Species is like Negro or. . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Jayatīrtha: . . .gods are also included in this human species.
Prabhupāda: Different types of. Kinnara. 400,000.
Brahmānanda: Also different planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. (break) . . . yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. (break) This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone, without any consideration. Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ. He does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh (BG 5.18). Materially there is division: he is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. (break) They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Hare Kṛṣṇa.