Arjuna was chastised. What is that? Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but you are lamenting on the subject matter on which no learned man laments. That means you are a fool." It is indirectly said. "No learned man laments on this subject." What was the subject? He was considering that "If I kill the other side, my brother or my nephew or my teacher, they will die." So that is the general impression in the whole world. Then He teaches, "No. On account of death of the body, the soul does not die. The soul simply changes another body. That's all." This is the first instruction. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). For that reason you cannot kill. It is not that Kṛṣṇa was encouraging killing. No. Duty. When there is fight, there is killing. You cannot avoid it. Just like the soldier. What is the duty of the soldier? Kill as many as possible the enemies. But the same soldier, if he comes back home and kills some of his men or countrymen and he is arrested and in the court, he is ordered to be hanged, and if he pleads that "I am a soldier. In the battlefield I have killed so many persons, and now I have killed one man. Why you are ordering me to be hanged?" What will be the answer of the court? The answer that "You cannot kill on principle. But you can kill on the superior order. You cannot kill by your whims." In the battlefield the commander-in-chief orders, "Yes, you kill and get gold medal." But if you think the, "I have killed so many persons in the battlefield. Here is my enemy. I kill him." No. That you cannot do. That you cannot do. This is the principle. When there is duty, that is another thing. But not whimsically. We cannot kill. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill." This is the order. "Thou shall not kill." But we are violating the order. We are killing so many animals. So this is not good. On the plea that "Lord Christ sometimes took some fish somewhere; therefore we will have to maintain a big slaughterhouse," this is not very good logic.
Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?
Expressions researched:
"Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse"
|"Because Christ has allowed some fish killing, therefore everyone should be killed"
|"But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals"
|"Lord Christ sometimes took some fish somewhere; therefore we will have to maintain a big slaughterhouse"
|"Lord Jesus Christ ate fish"
|"maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish"
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: ...argument being that Christ has said "Thou shalt not kill." That is one of ten commandments. Ten commandments are social codes for how the people are to live. Now, the people that are Christ's disciples, they are all fishermen. His whole community is fishermen and sheep herders. They are always... He is having fisherman community. So he did not mean for them to give up their engagement. They were all living as fishermen. He told them, "Thou shalt not kill." Therefore we can only conclude that Christ meant "Thou shalt not kill other human beings" because he was coming at a time, teaching principles how to live with each other...
Prabhupāda: No, we don't allow to comment or interpret on the words of... That we cannot allow. You cannot interpret in that way, in your own logical... That is not allowed.
Pañcadraviḍa: "But we say that when Christ said, Thou shalt not kill, and you say it refers all living beings, we say that is your interpretation because Christ is coming to teach fishermen. He never told them to give up their occupation. They continued to live as fishermen. Continued to live as sheep herders. He knew that killing was going on. Therefore his statement, 'Thou shalt not kill,' must refer to human beings because he was living in the community. He was teaching by his example."
Prabhupāda: But I can say, "Why not to the animals? You can eat fish only." Then I'll write book like that. Jesus Christ allowed the fishermen to fish, so then you can fish. Why you are killing cows? That will be my argument. If you are actually following Christ, all right, you can take fish, but why you are killing animals, and other animals? Why you are going that "Because Christ has allowed some fish killing, therefore everyone should be killed"? What is this nonsense? You follow strictly. All right, fish-killing.
Pañcadraviḍa: What is the difference between fish killing and goat killing?
Prabhupāda: Then everyone will say what is the difference between animal killing and and man killing?
Pañcadraviḍa: There is big difference between animal killing and...
Prabhupāda: Why big difference?
Pañcadraviḍa: If a man goes into the road he runs over a dog, there will not be so much punishment. But if a man goes into the road, he runs over...
Prabhupāda: That you have made, your laws. You have made that, if you kill a man and if you kill an animal, that is not equal. That is your... But that does not mean when it is said, "Thou shalt not kill"... This is no argument.
Pañcadraviḍa: That law was made for some reason. Because human being and animal are not on equal levels. Human being has soul, but animal does not.
Prabhupāda: Then you interpret in your own way. That is actually...
Prabhupāda: Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine. People pass urine on the street, and the sunshine absorbs the urine, evaporates, but sun is still pure. Rather, the place where the urine was passed, it becomes disinfected. Similarly, those who are powerful, īśvara, godly, you cannot imitate their actions. They are apparently doing something wrong; still, they are pure. The same example. The sun is absorbing or evaporating the urine, but sun is still pure. But if I imitate and lick up the urine, that is not very good business. Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Paramahaṁsa: The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?
Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?
Śrutakīrti: That was actually the Ten Commandments. That was given by God.
Gaṇeśa: Given to Moses.
Śrutakīrti: That was given to Moses by God. The Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?
Śrutakīrti: Well, Christ enforced it.
Paramahaṁsa: It was accepted by him as one of the rules.
Śrutakīrti: Christ's greatest commandment was to love God above all things. So if one is to love God, one must follow His instructions.
Prabhupāda: Who is following the instructions?
Śrutakīrti: We are.
Prabhupāda: But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: He was against that. He threw the men out of the temple, because they were selling lambs in the temple to be offered at the altar. So he kicked them out, saying this temple is not a place for selling animals for slaughter.
Paramahaṁsa: But in one place they say Christ encouraged fishermen. Because he came and the fishermen were fishing on one side of the boat, and Christ came along and said, "You are fishing on the wrong side of the boat." He said, "Put your nets on the other side, and you will get more fish." An they did that and they got huge amounts of fish. And so they were encouraged in their fish-eating in this way.
Gaṇeśa: Jesus also said to the fisherman, "Give up you fishing and I will make you fishers of men." He said this to his disciples.
Prabhupāda: Then on the whole it comes that his instructions are sometimes contradictory.
Paramahaṁsa: Not only that but they say that... Usually when it comes right down to it, the Bible has gone through so many interpretations and so many changes in the last two thousand years that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very difficult.
Paramahaṁsa: People..., I've talked to professors who know the original Hebrew and the original tongues that the Bible was written in. They say that is has changed so much that you can hardly...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are changing. Just like he said, "Thou shall not kill." They are now changing, "Thow shall not commit murder." They are doing that.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. They have a modern Bible, using all modern terminology.
Prabhupāda: So, when you change, then the authority is lost. Just like in our society, sometimes they do something nonsense and they say, "Prabhupāda said." (laughter) They are doing that. We know that. It is deteriorated like that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ kaunteya: "And in due course of time, this yoga was lost. Therefore I am repeating the same thing, old philosophy to you." So it requires like that.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: They say Christ is God.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say everyone is sinful; therefore what is the use?
Prabhupāda: Everyone sinful, therefore.... Christ is not sinful, therefore somebody may be sinful.
Hariśauri: But their whole philosophy is that no one can be sinless except Christ.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, then why don't you follow Christ? Christ says "Thou shall not kill," then why do you interpret? "Christ ate meat, therefore we shall open slaughterhouse," this is rascaldom. This rascaldom (indistinct). Because maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish. Do they not say that? And they are Christians. All others are sinful (indistinct), that's all right, why don't you kill (indistinct). Several times these Christians (indistinct).
Devotee: Everyone in the world is becoming tenth-class men, but Śrīla Prabhupāda is turning the whole thing around. Had you not come, there would be no hope for the whole world.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that "Thou shalt not kill," that's okay, but this is an impossible instruction.
Prabhupāda: This is rascaldom.
Hariśauri: That's a common philosophy. The Ten Commandments are there, but they're an ideal that no one can ever achieve.
Prabhupāda: Then you go to hell, rascaldom. (last two minutes of tape indistinct)
Devotee (1): The Christians say that Christ ate meat himself, that there's nothing wrong with it.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Christ ate meat? I don't think so.
Hari-śauri: They say fish.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?
Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.
Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse. What do you think? Is that good reasoning?
Devotee (2): No, it's demoniac by common sense if you maintain large slaughterhouses, it's completely irreligious.
Prabhupāda: When Christ said "Thou shalt not kill," does it mean that he wanted to maintain slaughterhouse? What is the answer, hm?
Devotee (1): No.
Vṛṣākapi: The Christians say that you kill the vegetables, you slaughter the vegetables.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall kill father, mother. You kill vegetables, therefore I shall kill my father and mother. Is that reasoning?
Dr. Sharma: I have a different concept of (indistinct), if I may give: When I'll be half as good as Christ, maybe I can be permitted to eat meat.
Prabhupāda: No, take the example of Christ. But because he ate fish, so because we eat vegetables, therefore a good cause for eating father and mother? For killing child?
| Page Title: | Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning? |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 26 of Nov, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=1, Con=5, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 6 |