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Are you interested to know how we produce anti-matter in our laboratories from...?

Expressions researched:
"Are you interested to know how we produce anti-matter in our laboratories from"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Anti-matter, I have explained that, this... So our anti-matter is different. Anti-matter means spirit. But your anti-matter is different.
Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Are you interested to know how we produce anti-matter in our laboratories from...?

Prabhupāda: Anti-matter, I have explained that, this... So our anti-matter is different. Anti-matter means spirit. But your anti-matter is different.

Robert Gouiran: Yes, it's just a word to define something.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but we mean, anti-matter means there are two things, spirit and matter. So anti-matter means spirit. That is our explanation. It is not matter. Just like matter is destructible. Anti-matter means which is not destructible. That is... Any matter... Find out this verse, acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam aśoṣyaḥ akledyaḥ... Find out...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:

acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam
akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca
nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇur
acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So any material thing is chedya, you can cut. Any material thing. The five kinds of material things, earth, water, air, you can cut it into divisions. Or it can be burned. It can be evaporated. Or it can be moistened. These things are material things. But the spiritual means just opposite. It cannot be cut. It cannot be dried up. It cannot be moistened. It..., so many things. And that is... We mean anti-matter. Just opposite. Which is possible in the physical world, but is not possible in the spiritual world. That we say anti-matter. But your anti-matter is another matter.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Another matter.

Robert Gouiran: Another state of matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Robert Gouiran: It is a state of matter which does not exist in our universe, in our solar system.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. But it is another material conception. And our anti-matter is... This is described. It cannot be cut, it cannot be dried up, it cannot be moistened, it cannot be... So many things. Which is possible in any material thing.

Robert Gouiran: That's the definition of energy.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: He says the definition you've just given of soul, that is their definition of energy, that it cannot be...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: ...destroyed, it cannot be...

Prabhupāda: That is, that is spiritual energy. Two energies. We accept two energies. One, this material energy, which can be cut into pieces, which can be dried up, which can be moistened, which can be burned. But another, spirit, that cannot be done so.

Yogeśvara: If I remember correctly from the little bit of studies that I did in physics, I think it's also the physical definition that material energy is also indestructible, that it's transformable, but not destructible. Is that correct?

Robert Gouiran: Exactly, that the, that the... I was telling the definition of the energy. And if we start from pure energy, absolutely immaterial, pure energy, this pure energy can transform itself in two parts. One is called matter and the other I call anti-matter. And these two parts, they can annihilate together, and then you have back the pure energy. That is definition, our definition, of anti-matter. The anti-matter is what is produced with the matter from pure energy, and what is annihilated by matter to produce again pure energy. You can't, you can't produce our matter, ordinary matter, from pure energy. It's impossible.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. That pure energy is spiritual energy, and from that spiritual energy the material energy comes out. That I have already said: From the soul the matter grows. So that is spiritual energy. The basic energy is spiritual. And because the spiritual energy is the cause and the material energy is the effect, therefore in one sense we can say there is no difference between material energy and spiritual energy. Because spiritual energy is the cause, and material energy effect. Effect may be presented in different forms. Just like cotton is the cause of thread. And the thread is transformed into cloth. But you cannot take cotton for cloth. The cotton is there in the cloth in a different, transformed, transform, but you cannot accept, when you require a cloth, you cannot take cotton. This is a crude example. So the cause of physical elements is spiritual energy, and the spiritual energy is... Both spiritual... Spiritual energy is coming from God. Just like... (aside:) Close. (sound of windows closing) Just like the sunshine is coming from the sun, and in the sunshine there are so many physical transformations. Is it not? In the sunshine... Just like we, ordinary men, we can understand. When there is absence of sunshine... In your western countries or in other..., the leaves of the tree falls down. And again, in the springtime, as soon as there is sufficient sunshine, immediately thousands of trees grows leaves. So there is action of sunshine. So sunshine is coming from the sun. And the sunshine is working in different ways, changing the color of the flowers, of the leaves, and... Or, so far I know, all the planets are, they're rotating on the sunshine heat. Eh? So therefore the sunshine is the original cause of all material, physical things. But wherefrom the sunshine comes? That comes from the spiritual energy. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). In the Brahma-saṁhitā. So that original cause is the spiritual energy. Therefore, because everything is coming from the spiritual energy, you can take everything as spiritual. The same example: like cotton is the original cause. Then it comes thread, then comes...

Guru-gaurāṅga: Cloth.

Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it. Otherwise, why you create? Why you take the responsibility of a family? For your enjoyment. Otherwise who takes care of the family? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He has created us, Kṛṣṇa's family. We also address Kṛṣṇa, "O Father, give us our daily bread." And He's actually giving us bread. Not only us, to all the living entities. So it is a big family, and Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. So we should all be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)

Prabhupāda: That is perfection.

Robert Gouiran: Just to be clear about what is the scientific concept of anti-matter...

Prabhupāda: This is the scientific concept of matter. The matter grows from spirit. How you can deny it?

Robert Gouiran: I don't deny this. What I'm...

Prabhupāda: Then this is scientific. That I have already explained. So the, the supreme source of everything is Kṛṣṇa.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
(BG 10.8)

Read it.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."

Prabhupāda: That's it. He is the source of everything. So-called material, so-called spiritual—everything coming from Him. Therefore everything transformed... Or not transformed. Everything is transforming. That's all right. Therefore everything belongs to Him. So everything should be employed for His satisfaction. That is perfection. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births, when one becomes actually scientist, he understands, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything." Find out.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
(BG 7.19)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Yogeśvara: I was explaining to him that he seems some...

Robert Gouiran: (French)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: (French)

Yogeśvara: He's wondering whether there's some kind of information that he can supply providing the scientific point of view.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yogeśvara: Whether there's some information that he can provide.

Prabhupāda: This is the information, that matter comes from spirit. The so-called scientists, they are thinking that life is coming from matter. And that is nonsense. Matter is coming from life. This is sense. Where is the proof that life is coming from matter? Is there any proof? We don't find any proof.

Robert Gouiran: But life...

Prabhupāda: You have got laboratory.

Robert Gouiran: ...can come from matter. It can come from matter.

Prabhupāda: You combine matter in the laboratory and produce a life. That you cannot do. Then why do you say that life comes from matter?

Robert Gouiran: But what is life?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: He asks what is...

Robert Gouiran: What is this life we should, we could not produce?

Prabhupāda: That you are speaking, that is life. If this life is not there, you cannot speak.

Robert Gouiran: So it's a speaking machine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are speaking because the life is there. That is life.

Robert Gouiran: So we can produce a speaking machine.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: We can make a speaking...

Prabhupāda: No, speaking, what is that speaking machine? If I speak, then it will speak. (laughter) That is nonsense. This speaking machine will speak when I speak, when the life speaks. Otherwise it has no speaking power. Then what is the use of your machine if there is no life?

Robert Gouiran: But that doesn't tell me what is life.

Prabhupāda: Now, life means... Just like you say that speaking-machine is an instrument. It has no life. But when a living man speaks, the machine speaks.

Yogeśvara: It is a study of the symptoms.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the whole physical world is a machine, and the Supreme Life, Kṛṣṇa, when He manipulates, operates, then it works. That is stated.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
(BG 9.10)

Yes?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "This material nature is working under My direction."

Prabhupāda: This is... Just like the machine is working under the direction of a life, they are... (break) ...not without God. That is this, it has no value. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse. In this yellow book.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In that one?

Prabhupāda: No, no. In that yellow book. Yes, index.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

This is science. Idam...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Five, twenty-two, Page 252.

Yogeśvara: So we need the other volume.

Prabhupāda: Which part?

Yogeśvara: First book.

Prabhupāda: That's right, yes. What is the verse number?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: 5.22, Chapter Five. Yes.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

Prabhupāda: Guṇānuvarṇanam.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Guṇānuvarṇanam. "Translation: Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely, austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect. What is the purport?

Page Title:Are you interested to know how we produce anti-matter in our laboratories from...?
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas, Rishab
Created:25 of Jun, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=1, Let=0
No. of Quotes:1