Nandarāṇī: This saṅkalpa-vikalpa is there as long as we have our independence, though. Even as devotees, that accepting and rejecting? That is there even in devotees.
Prabhupāda: A devotee, because a nondevotee has become a devotee, he is practicing how to simply accept Kṛṣṇa's orders. But by his previous habit he's still engaged in "do it" and "don't do it." That is his previous habit. Just like this fan is running. You take out the switch, the current is stopped, but it's still running, at least three, four rounds. So similarly, if you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your, that current of "do it" or "do not," is stopped. Because you have agreed to do only what Kṛṣṇa says. If you have actually decided like that, then you are free. There is no more current of "do it" or "not do it." But because you were habituated in your past life to this "do it" or "not do it," sometimes it is found. But that is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,
- api cet sudurācāro
- bhajate mām ananya-bhāk
- sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ
- samyag vyavasito hi saḥ
- (BG 9.30)
He has got little practice of these nonsense things. But if he sticks to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be stopped very soon. That is the only remedy. So a devotee means he has taken vow before the spiritual master, before the fire, before... If he sticks to his principle, then he's free. Even though some bad habits found due to his past behavior. That will be stopped. But he must stick. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. That must stick. Kṛṣṇa consciousness must continue. Everything will be corrected. And if there is slackness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then again he'll fall down. That I was telling this morning, that if you have determination, māyā will put forward so many impediments, and with all sufferings, if he remains determined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is success. A man is habituated to smoke. He has given up, has promised no more smoking. Just like our students. Now he's put amongst some friends, they are smoking. But he has bad habit, he's thinking, "Why not smoke?" And if the friends offer, "It is friends. Who is going to see, your spiritual master." "Yes." That is possible. But if he comes to his sense again, "Oh, what I have done?" If he repents, "I promised it before my spiritual master, before God, before fire. Now I'm doing this?" that repentance will help him. And if he thinks that "I'm doing it. My spiritual master is not here, let me fall to it," then he is finished. Then he is finished. If he repents for the wrong he has done, then he's excused. Otherwise finished.
Hari-śauri: Is there any limit to the number of chances that he has?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is limit. Once, twice, thrice. If you make four times, then it is extricated: "Get out rascal, cheating."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, aren't there fallen sinful people who are still...
Prabhupāda: Amongst fallen, sinful people, if you want to remain fallen, sinful, then who can help you? It is up to you. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And if you want to remain fallen, "No, I'll do it, go on," you remain. What is objection of Kṛṣṇa? Go on. You are suffering, go on suffering. I give you this suggestion, you do it. If you do it, you become free. But if you want to continue, continue, it is your business. Go on suffering. Why you make Kṛṣṇa responsible? You are responsible for your own activities.
Nava-yauvana: You say if someone has no shame...
Prabhupāda: Yes, shameless. Dukankata,(?) in Bengal it is called. So if you want to continue, then continue. The facility is already given there. The material world is there. You go on, continue. But if you want to stop it, if you are conscious of the material position, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), then you have to stop it. Kṛṣṇa has given you freedom, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Whatever you like, you can do. If you like to suffer, go on suffering. Who can...? It is your business.
Nava-yauvana: But unless one is getting Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he is forced to go on.
Prabhupāda: Yes, māyā is there. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). You cannot do anything without knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there, māyā is there. They'll take care. Kṛṣṇa's agent māyā will take care of you. You have to be taken care, either by māyā or by Kṛṣṇa. If you agree to be taken care by Kṛṣṇa, then you are happy. And if you don't agree, you will be taken care by māyā. You go on suffering. In either case you are not independent. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). That verse is very important-yathecchasi tathā kuru. Find out that verse. It is the last part. Yesterday you found.
Hari-śauri: Oh, I know which one it is. The one about "Now do as you wish."
Prabhupāda: That liberty is always there.
- iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ
- guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā
- vimṛśyaitad aśeṣeṇa
- yathecchasi tathā kuru
- (BG 18.63)
"This I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do."
Prabhupāda: So it is your business. "Deliberate on all the points I have told you. Now if you like, you surrender unto Me. If you don't like, you do whatever you like." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). This is God. He doesn't touch on your liberty, little liberty given to you, He doesn't touch. He gives you the right information, right instruction. Now you... Idaṁ te jñānam? Iti te jñānam.
Hari-śauri: Iti te jñānam ākhyātam.
Hari-śauri: Guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā.
Prabhupāda: Guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā.
Prabhupāda: Vimṛśya, "Now you think over it." Not that blindly accept. You consider, make your deliberation, and then you do whatever you like. This freedom is given. What is the wrong there? Iti te jñānam ākhyātam, "I've explained to you all kinds of different types of knowledge, and ultimately, guhyatamam, the most confidential knowledge I've spoken to you, that you surrender to Me. Now you deliberate on this point very nicely, and then vimṛśya, then after full consideration, do whatever you like." It's everything up to you. There is no force. "If you want to remain in this material world, remain here, suffer life after life. Otherwise you come to Me." That is your choice. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).
- mām upetya punar janma
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
Everything is there. He says very emphatically, vimṛśya, "Just judge, deliberately, consider it by full consideration. Then decide. You are quite at liberty to do whatever you like. I have spoken everything." This is your position, this is God's position. There is no force. God can force, but there is no force.
Nava-yauvana: That deliberation means to study your books.
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got deliberating power. If you go to purchase one two-cents'-worth lozenges, still you see three qualities are there. It is worth only two cents, but still he sees which one is better, which one is better. That power is there.
Hari-śauri: You say here in the purport, "Before surrendering one is free to deliberate on this subject as far as the intelligence goes."
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got your intelligence. God has given you intelligence. Now you deliberate. But if you... A devotee, without using my intelligence, I surrender. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). Immediately you become the greatest mahātmā. If you simply believe in Kṛṣṇa, "What my nonsense intelligence...? What Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do. Bas." Your life is perfect. And if you think still that "I am more intelligent (than) Kṛṣṇa, let me deliberate and consider," then you remain rascal. You cannot be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), you take it. That is real intelligence. That is real intelligence. Just like obedient son, my father says to do it. "All right, I shall take it, although it does not appeal to me." That is good son. Natural guardian, father, if son understands "My father or mother, whatever they will say, it is surely for my good. They cannot be cheater." So intelligent son will take "Yes, my father says, I'll do it. That's all. Never mind it does not appeal to me." That is intelligence, real intelligence. "Because I am immature, my father knows my good, he says 'My dear son, do it. It will be nice.' I'll do it." That's all. Without any objection. That is intelligence. That is real intelligence. But the father gives the freedom, "Now you deliberate." But it is my duty, when father says, what is deliberation? I'll accept. That is intelligence. And if you do not do it, then you come to that karma, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). God offers, but the rascal, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, will not do it. They'll suffer. Go on, continue to suffer. He'll not do it, all right, go on, suffer. Next life if he becomes dog, the ear is there, but he'll not be able to hear what Kṛṣṇa says: finished. That chance is finished. This is going on. The dog has ear, big ear, bigger than me. But he cannot hear what is Kṛṣṇa saying. That is not possible. But this life I've got this ear, I can hear. If I don't take chance, then how much foolish I am. Next life, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I'll get next life, next birth. Now it is not necessarily that I'll get the next life also same ear. No. The ear may be different. The eyes may be different. The eyes are there, ears are there, nose is, but it is different. So long we have got these eyes, these ears, this nose, utilize it properly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja...(?) Every birth you'll get a father, mother. Because without father, mother, there is no question of birth. But not in every birth you'll get Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is in this birth. Birth you can have. But to have Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is this birth. So utilize it properly. Janame janame saba pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja... Very nice. That chance you'll not get. You'll get body, you'll get eyes, you'll get ear, you'll get father, you'll get mother, you'll get food, you'll get sex, you'll get defense, everything you'll get. Tathā dehāntara. But not this chance, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja. You'll not get Kṛṣṇa and guru. This is the difference. How nice verse it is. Everything you'll get, but you'll not get this. How nice it is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), another body you'll get. Another body you'll get means you will get all bodily facilities. There is no scarcity between this body and that body. But only scarcity is that in other body you'll not get Kṛṣṇa and guru. We have to remember this.
Jñānagamya: It is stated in the Bhāgavatam that once in every structure of the universe, every living entity gets the opportunity to have guru and Kṛṣṇa and very, very nice situation. He gets that opportunity.
Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that this is the only chance of Kṛṣṇa, guru, and if he neglects this chance, then tanwan sthito hi ga(?). What is the loss more than that? We are simply calculating loss and gain. Just imagine what is the loss by misusing this human form of body. If you want to spoil this life under the influence of misleaders, you can do it. But if you prefer to take the sense of following leadership of Kṛṣṇa, then our life... Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That comes mām ekam, ekam—then your life is successful. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I'll give you protection in all respects." So if we don't take this opportunity, then we are cutting our own throat. Do it, you can do it. Who can save you?
Jñānagamya: You have said it's like two airplanes. If an airplane is in trouble, no other airplane can help.
Prabhupāda: God can help. Other airplane cannot. If God likes, He can save you.
Hari-śauri: You were saying that if one is intelligent he can just accept the father's instruction, and he knows it will be good. But most people have such bad experience that every time they've accepted instruction they've just been cheated, that they're a little slow to...
Prabhupāda: What is it? No, you said, cheated or...?
Hari-śauri: You were saying that by intelligence one can just accept what the father says will be good for him and he'll do it, but most people have such a bad experience in the material world, they get cheated so often...
Prabhupāda: That is his misfortune, if the father is cheating him. So that means he's most unfortunate. Father is not expected to cheat the son, but if he's cheated by the father, then he must accept himself as most unfortunate cheated in the world. Then there is no help. Because he's so unfortunate that he's under the care of a cheater father, then what can be done? Nobody expects that father will cheat. And nowadays it is coming. Mother is cheating, mother is killing, father is cheated. Yes. It is Kali-yuga.
Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems as though in the modern scientific idea, so-called scientific idea, is that everyone should have his own individual intelligence, develop himself.
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa also is allowing you, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Deliberate, Kṛṣṇa is giving you. But who is accepting? That you have got your own intelligence.
Dayānanda: But I mean rebelliousness. Everyone should...
Prabhupāda: So whatever you like, you can do. Kṛṣṇa says that you have got intelligence. "You consider, I have spoken to you. Now you use your intelligence and do whatever you like." Kṛṣṇa does not deny your intelligence. There is no meaning. You have got your intelligence. That is your... Training, you take Kṛṣṇa's training. If you don't take, then you remain in your own training. Kṛṣṇa is training you, He says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), but if you don't take His training, then you remain in your own training. Who objects? Remain a rascal. Who objects? Continue to become a rascal. What can be done? That yathecchasi tathā kuru is already said. You use your intelligence. If you prefer to remain rascal, you remain. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "Don't use your intelligence." What does He say? But if you are actually intelligent, then you'll think that, "Who can be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa? Let me take His advice." That is real intelligence. Why shall I use my tiny intelligence? That is real intelligence.
Nandarāṇī: Kṛṣṇa was speaking to Arjuna, and Arjuna had real intelligence, but nowadays if someone tries to consider Kṛṣṇa's instructions and deliberate fully and make some decision, he always makes the wrong decision.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore he has to accept spiritual master to guide him. Just like simply by reading books you do not become educated. You go to school and read before the teacher. Then you'll understand. You cannot become a medical man by purchasing books from the market and reading at home. You must go to the medical college. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Not only reading, but you go to the person who is actually realized. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Everything is there. You cannot understand individually. That is not possible. If you are extraordinarily intelligent, you can do that. That is exception. But ordinarily it is not possible. Therefore the spiritual master is there. He'll guide you.