European (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Prabhupāda: Never mind Christian, Hindu, Muslim. A Christian or a..., if we offer them nice food and nice dress, nobody will deny.

Dr. Patel: But these Hindus became Christians because they were offered nice food and dress by Christian missionaries.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is not that, just to bring them and proselytize them to Hinduism. No. Take prasādam, take dress, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance. That's all. I never said to all these European and American disciples that "You become a Hindu." I never said. Ask them. I never said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither we would have agreed.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I ask them to be? I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...

Dr. Patel: But these Hindus became Christians because they were offered nice food and dress by Christian missionaries.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is not that, just to bring them and proselytize them to Hinduism. No. Take prasādam, take dress, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance. That's all. I never said to all these European and American disciples that "You become a Hindu." I never said. Ask them. I never said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither we would have agreed.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I ask them to be? I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...

Dr. Patel: I think that they must understand, sir, that Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion. Religion is a Vedic religion, which is common to Christianity. I would say that Jesus Christ has taught the Vedic religion to the Middle East and to the heathens and he was crucified because the heathens were not able to understand him properly. That is what my, I mean, convictions, strong conviction is that Jesus had actually preached Hinduism, I mean Vedic religion there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was...

Dr. Patel: And all religions are in fact Vedic.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: You see, abhayaṁ sattva. First thing is abhaya. Abhaya-dāna, when you give, it is the greatest dāna. That is the first principle of all the religions, and that is the religion Christ taught there. The Middle East people and the Europeans had no what we call saṁskāra. Those people are very backwards, towards India's backside. Because of the climatic conditions.

Prabhupāda: No, from the First Commandment it appears that they were not very enlightened because why does he say "Thou shall not kill"? That means they were killers.

Dr. Patel: They were killing. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: They were killers.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise, they would not have said, "Thou shall not kill."

Prabhupāda: Why the first commandment is there, "Thou shall not kill"? They were fighting and killing amongst themselves. Not very advanced nation. And he was horrified when he saw that the Jews were killing animals.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): Because God wants to bring them as human...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is a chance. Suppose if somebody's given chance to take opportunity and if you kill, that's a great sin. You cannot do that. You are obstructing his natural progress. Is that birth control (Hindi) European countries mai (?), he hasn't got soul, lump of matter, (Hindi) (break) As soon as you forget the duty of human life, then you are nothing but animal. This is the verdict of Hindu dharma, that if you do not properly behave as human being, you are no better than animal. Dharmeṇa hīna, (Hindi) ...will give him an animal body. This is nature's work. Yes, again come, again come (Hindi) But he does not do that.

Guest (3): But Swamiji, sexual intercourse after marriage is against law of Manu?

Prabhupāda: No, that is also... There is law. You cannot have sexual intercourse with wife as you like, no. That is also illicit sex. Then... When the woman is in menstrual period, after five days, you can have once. As soon as she is pregnant, no more sexual intercourse. This is human being. Not that like animal. Animals also, they have got restrictions. You see? The lions, they have sexual intercourse once in life. Once in life. Brahmacārī. You see?

Dr. Patel: At last. Not only here, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, that is also another fault.

Dr. Patel: ...also another, America or England or, say, in Continent or European countries. Everywhere, including the all oriental countries as well.

Prabhupāda: Where is...? Mr. Shah is not...? He's not come today?

Dr. Patel: No, he had not come. These are seven today, but they all went away from here. All were very busy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mleccha. Mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Mlecchas will take the position of government.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...he is concerned, he has done his duty. And he has promised to phone. Now it is his duty.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You say that those gurus who appear as material body, you are not to take it as a material body. Say that way. Because we are little...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Not to take it. It is actually. If it is material body, then how they are getting benefits? If it is a material body. The same example: if it is iron rod, how it is burning? It is fire. When there is burning, you must assume it is fire. Why do you take, "Oh, it is iron rod"? Phalena paricīyate. Phalena paricīyate. By the result you have to... Therefore it is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. We, we have no direct contact with Bhagavān, but guru, being representative of Bhagavān, if we satisfy guru, then Bhagavān becomes... Identical. Therefore it is warned: vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Similarly, vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. "Here is a European Vaiṣṇava, he's Indian Vaiṣṇava, it is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava and śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. That is also, that is also offense.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Ācchā, the way back we passed. Do you want to go back yet or around to the end?

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) ...In every life, there is āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. He'll think that "I am very well situated." Even in the hog's life. That is māyā. Similarly, even if you are thinking, "Now we have got human body. We are well situated than the hog," that is also mistake. That is also mistake. "I am European, American, I have got so comfortable." Everything is wrong. Because you have to transmigrate. You do not know what is the next life. So what is the meaning of this well-situated. That is the mistake. That is māyā. You are not sure that you'll continue this life. You'll have to die. You have to accept. So this is māyā. Somebody well-situated, he's thinking, "Oh, I haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am well situated. I am European and American."

Jayapatākā: Watch out here.

Prabhupāda: Where is our... (break) (kīrtana-party in background) ...that "Europeans and Americans will come, and they will dance here with the chanting, "Jaya Śacīnandana, Jaya Śacīnandana!" So that is being done.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life. Ideal life. Then this mis... That... Now in Bombay, they have refused. Because they are under the impression that "They, these Europeans have come here under some sentiment, and what is the use?" They have taken some plea and rejected our... (break) ...is there. As we are making counterpropaganda against māyā, the māyā is also very strong.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Dr. Patel: They must be kept extremely clean or some of the diseases, you must have (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: These European, American boys, they gave up their smoking habit, drinking tea habit, all habits, meat-eating, immediately. But if we ask any Indian, he has to consider for three generations.

Dr. Patel: That is because they have been so trained from childhood.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have been trained so (indistinct) from childhood, meat-eating, drinking wine, drinking tea, smoking, and illicit sex, but they gave up immediately.

Dr. Patel: But in hygiene also they have (indistinct) our way.

Prabhupāda: They are observing hygienic principle as far as possible, but only thing is they require little guidance.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you first of all follow. You first of all follow. Then you teach them.

Dr. Patel: Bābā... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...follow, how can I teach them?

Dr. Patel: We are following of the... We have been taught the European way. We are following their method.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are not following.

Dr. Patel: So we will come to the... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Mahāprabhu says, āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupāda: You must first of all behave yourself. Then you can teach.

Dr. Patel: That is why, I tell you... I cite an example of Gandhi... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot have any good qualities. And if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, all the good qualities will automatically come out. So therefore this is the only treatment, to educate people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be settled up. One remedy.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Listen, you are arguing in such a way that there will be a flash between us two.

Prabhupāda: No, no. People should be trained up in such a way that in spite of (indistinct) you should not be agitated. That is, that is.

Guest (1): Our religion... (break) and that these boys... (break)

Dr. Patel: Sādhus, not sannyāsīs. (break)

Prabhupāda: In European countries, in European countries, if you restrict in that way, that will be fanaticism.

Guest (1): That is what I am telling you. It should not be done immediately like that. (break) ...it must be trained, and it will take a long time.

Prabhupāda: Why Europe? Nowadays, here also. That is not possible.

Guest (1): It is not... It is not possible.

Prabhupāda: It is simply utopian, utopian.

Dr. Patel: That is all right. It is not possible. So you are doing like this. When it was possible...,

Prabhupāda: We are, we are training that... Never mind. That is the training of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. That women may be thousands, but you see them as your mother. That's it.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Chandobhai: After he attains that, these qualities are the test of that man, how we can test that man?

Prabhupāda: No, no, testing, that is also stated. Just like these Europeans, Americans, in their previous position, they had many bad habits. But somehow or other, they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is their position, guṇātīta. Even by habit they commit something mistake, that is not to be taken into account. Because... Just hear. Just like a fan is moving, and make the switch off. So the switch is off. That is first consideration. And after the switch being off, the fan is moving, that is no consideration. Do you understand? Because the fan was in force, so you, although you have made the switch off, still moving.

Chandobhai: Still moving, yeah.

Prabhupāda: That is not to be taken into account.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji was never asking anything, for medicine much.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.

Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.

Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.

Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)

Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...

Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Venice.

Italian Man (1): Yes. So it would be so fantastic to present them a platform of religion so...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Of course it is religion. But the religion, as it is misunderstood in European countries that religion is a kind of faith, but it is not like that. It is science. It is fact. Religion, you have got some faith. That may not be right. It may be wrong. Just like the Christian religion, they have got faith in this way, that animal has no soul. Do you know that?

Italian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's not a fact. Do you agree or not?

Italian Man (1): I do.

Prabhupāda: Animal also has soul.

Italian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why do they disagree, that animal has no soul? What is the point? Why do they say?

Italian Man (1): Because they don't like to identify themselves with animals. Because if they admit that animals have a soul, then they have to identity, means they are afraid of identifying with animals. They feel they are superior to animals. We are superior to animals, indeed, but...

Prabhupāda: That is by intelligence. We are superior to animals by superior intelligence, not by... Just like a human child. His father is superior than the child because the father has got superior intelligence, not that the child has no soul. The child talks so many nonsense things, but we take it, "After all, it is child." Nobody cares whether it is symmetrical or not, because his intelligence is not developed. So even the animals have no developed intelligence, that does not mean it has no soul. Yes. The evolution of different types of body means evolution of intelligence. Just like a flower, in the bud stage, the flower is there. But the fragrance or the beauty has not yet developed. So unless the things are there, how it can develop? Similarly, the soul is there in every living entity, but according to the development of the body, evolution of the body, the intelligence becomes manifest. Otherwise, what is the meaning of education? Education means to develop the intelligence. That is education.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Greek civilization, Roman civilization, is the beginning of European civilization. So your position is very nice.

Italian Man (1): Well, yes. When I was a child I was brought up to go to the mass every morning, and I used to answer in Latin, you know, and serve the priest.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Italian Man (1): Yes. Even twice a day until the age of fourteen, and then we went to catechism. And then I left, I left alone, you know, by my own will. (break) It would be fantastic to go back with a background of, with the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and talk to them about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...this boy, he is going to develop our Italian center, Rome.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). When he fully became perfect and Nārāyaṇa was present before him, He asked him, "What benediction you want? You take." He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "Simply by seeing You, by Your presence, I am fully satisfied. No more benediction. I don't want any benediction." This is bhakti. Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt. (break) ...ca lābha-santuṣṭau. No more demand. "Whatever by Kṛṣṇa's grace comes, that's all right. And not comes, it doesn't matter." The other śloka also, nirāśī, That is bhakti. Otherwise how one can be satisfied in any condition of life unless there is bhakti? That is the test. The test is that he has got something. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If he actually achieves Kṛṣṇa, then he does not think that anything better than this. That I see amongst these Europeans and American boys and girls. They have seen it, that "It is better than our so-called material life." Therefore they have been able to give up. Just like this boy Girirāja, he is very rich man's son. His father gave him a special car. His father is a big lawyer in Chicago. So he gave up everything. Now he is begging daily, although he is earning at least fifty-thousand rupees per month. But he has no... He is just like beggar. He doesn't care for his father. There are many like this. Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). These are the test. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) ...devotee. Then all the good qualities will be manifested in his person. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ. And if one is not a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa, of Hari, then he cannot possess any mahad-guṇa. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Why? Mano-rathena: "He is simply hovering in the mental plane." He is not fixed up. Therefore asato dhavato bahiḥ. Then he will have to do something which is asat. Asato maṁ sad gama. That is the Vedic... "Don't remain in the asat; just make progress to the sat." That is wanted.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You don't care for danger. You go on chanting. That's all. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). This is a place where padaṁ padaṁ vipadām: every step there is danger. How much dangerous position you'll save? Better go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and some European, one European was coming. So as soon as we face to face, so I had to get down. They forced me.

Dr. Patel: You know that way they behaved with Gandhiji in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Beaten him like anything. He would have died. (break) Fisher's, Fisherman's island. "I shall again turn them into fisherman's island."

Dr. Patel: British people is the fisherman's island.

Prabhupāda: Germany is the bitterest enemy of Britain.

Dr. Patel: Stalin.

Prabhupāda: No, Germany, whole Germany. They do not like to speak in English also. Yes, I have seen it. Even they know English, they'll not speak. In the bank they could speak a little, little English, but they avoid. Then I took... What is that boy that first went to...?

Bhāgavata: Śivānanda.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Yadubara: "As soon as Keśi reached Him..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was not so cheap. He had to pay proper price.

Dr. Patel: In Europe also they were eloping away, these girls.

Prabhupāda: Europeans, they are also coming from kṣatriya family.

Yadubara: "I shall also see how You..." (break) "...your internal potency You have set up the influence of māyā." That is part of the internal potency?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. What is your question?

Yadubara: Well, I thought it was the external potency.

Prabhupāda: For Him there is no external, internal. For Kṛṣṇa there is no external, internal. You cannot understand this. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. For me there is external, internal, but for Kṛṣṇa there is no external, internal because His energy... The external energy is also His energy, and internal is His energy. Therefore He's everything. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) For electrician there is no difference between refrigerator and heater. He knows how to adjust it. For me, this is heater; this is refrigerator. Like that.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...a few enjoying very much. In the whole city, a lot of parks, a lot of amphitheaters and that is how they went to ruin.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. American luxury or European luxury leading to these hippies' poverty. Voluntarily they are accepting poverty. Opposite. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Pendulum.

Dhanañjaya: What is that? (loud noise from birds)

Prabhupāda: Cranes.

Dhanañjaya: Cranes?

Satsvarūpa: The zoo.

Dhanañjaya: Those are pelicans, with the big bag underneath. And there are some South American animals, llamas. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fight with tiger and elephants?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Lions.

Dhanañjaya: They would use a trident and a net and they would try to throw the net over the lion and fight the lion like this.

Prabhupāda: And kill?

Dhanañjaya: And kill, yes.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, may I ask a question? I find in medieval European philosophy two different attitudes and..., which I find difficult to reconcile perfectly. That is to say the earlier Christians, up to the thirteenth Century, I suppose, were practically only thinking about God, nothing else but God so that nature or the human being, or any... everything else, tended to disappear altogether as also in some Indian philosophy, I think. And then, later on, with more modern science and so on you've got a different attitude in the Christians themselves, that is to say an attitude of acceptance towards subordinate things so that they became independent and finally, of course, broke away altogether so that nowadays we have science without God at all. But there was a sort of period in the late middle ages when St. Thomas Aquinas, who stopped thinking about God, only about God, and gave his attention to science, so they say. Well, there was a sort of conflict there. I don't quite know what to say about it whether I'm on one side or the other. That is to say if I were to (indistinct) the earlier Christian or (indistinct) There was Aquinas, for instance, who was a saint, but he would pray into the world, if you like. I wondered whether you would disapprove of that or...

Prabhupāda: Yes, these different types of philosophers are always there, not only in the medieval age, in the previously also. It is said, na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. "A philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not present a different view." (laughter) This is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ (?). Tarka, by argument, logic, you cannot come to the right conclusion because you may be a good logician and then you meet another logician who is better than you. So his arguments may be stronger than your argument. Therefore, simply by arguments or logical premises, you cannot approach the Absolute Truth.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well. I understand. But I only think that the dietetic rules would be perhaps an obstacle to the spreading... I mean certain rules which are clean against European or American custom might constitute an obstacle to the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I mean, in the Roman Catholic church you have the monks. Then you have the laity who observe less strict rules without being considered outside God. And you don't have that, do you? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa movement is a movement of what we should call monks or religious... There is no laity in the Roman Catholic Christian sense, people of the world who are doing messy things, I mean, trading the drugs or whatever it is because it's a job they have to do, but belong to the church without being strictly religious.

Prabhupāda: At least the church people, the priests, they must follow strictly the rules.

Richard Webster: Yes. But I mean the difference seems to be with the Christian...

Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: Mr. Webster has your Bhagavad-gītā, and reads it very intently. And a few days ago he came back for another copy which he recommended to his friends.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. You kindly try to spread. Everything, whatever we speak, our philosophy, this is based on this Bhagavad-gītā. That's all.

Richard Webster: It's very difficult when you're talking to Europeans. I mean...

Yogeśvara: But here we're not American or European.

Richard Webster: Yes, but I mean in the West it's a very different kind of difficulty...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere it is difficult because people have become godless. Still, we have to try our best. The task is difficult, undoubtedly. It is very difficult task, to bring back people to God consciousness. But still we have to do it to satisfy God. He wants it.

Richard Webster: Well, I'm so very glad. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Well, I think that because you are friends of God, we are friends of God, we are all friends and this is good. But I think that, if I understand it well, that your aim is to reach people who are unbelievers or people who are atheistic, as you said before. And then I would like to know... You are not obliged, you are completely free to do what you want. But I would like to know if you got into these places or amongst these people... There are many places and many peoples in the world who are in these conditions, without faith and without the spiritual values. Because it is for us, we hope so. We are good friends of God, and we are always in our prayers and meditation united to God, and to... But we thank you for your visit and for your, for this reason we are good friends altogether. But I would like to know historically your work, I mean if you go into these areas or into these places where is possible. For instance, take the example of Russia, eh? Now you are in good relations. India and Russia probably for Indians it is easier than for Europeans or for some of our countries or for Americans. Are you... Have you this problem? Do you go into these areas, into these places?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I went to Moscow. I was invited.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Well, thank you for your explanations.

Prabhupāda: And it is being effective. It is being effective. In our group we find Africans, Americans, Indians, Europeans, Canadians, Japanese, Chinese, everyone.

Monsignor Verrozano: And what concern the Buddhist countries where God is not so, at least, the prayers or the name of God is not so well known. I am just coming from Bangkok where we had a meeting with Buddhist monks of the (indistinct), and have you also some movement, some kind of action to spread love of God to (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Well, Buddhists, they do not believe in God.

Cardinal and Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, Buddhist philosophy is atheistic philosophy.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Are you welcome in Japan? People are interested, eh?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently some of our preachers, they have collected fifty-thousand dollars from the Japanese people. They wanted to contribute me for my Vṛndāvana temple, but the Japanese government will not allow to let the money go out. He wrote me. And I have seen personally, when I went... I went to Japan three, four times. These Japanese boys and girls, they are as good as these American, Europeans boys. And that is my practical... Or they, they are my students. They offer me respect so much. The Japanese boys, without being my students, they offer the same respect. So I thought that Japan is very good. Everywhere. That I told you already, that the love of Godhead is dormant in everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. It is the process to awaken that love of Godhead: That is first-class religion. The matter is already there. Simply we have to awaken. And now, that process which awakens very quickly, that is first-class religion. That is the first... And besides that, really understanding of God is very rarely found.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: And... Why Calcutta? You go to the airport. You will find so nice gardens, still existing. Now it is spoiled also. Because people have changed locally to the city. Nobody has to take care now. Otherwise, in Bengal especially, throughout the whole India, Bengal was so beautiful. The Europeans became attracted by the beauty of Bengal. Therefore they made Calcutta their capital, the Britishers. Yes. Every European liked Bengal. Every European. I met one European German gentleman in Bombay. He was in Calcutta. When I was in Bimha (?). So I asked, "Why you left Calcutta?" "Oh, I am very sorry. Calcutta was so nice." And actually. Where we have got our temple, these quarters were known as "Sahib" quarter. Just like our temple is "Sahib" temple. So these Chowringee and Camac Street, Park, these were all European. They liked very much to live in Bengal. And there is another story. One English officer he became attracted by the beauty of a Bengali woman. There is story by Bankima Candra. Candrashekhara. The man was after that woman, how to get it. That is the subject matter of story. He was attracted by the black eyes and black hair. Bengali beauty.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: So because we will have cut down his expenses, he will be satisfied with the pay that he has. We would not have to give him more money.

Prabhupāda: They will not take any payment. Just like under me so many Europeans and Americans work daily. I don't pay them a farthing. When they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll haven't got to pay anything. But you cannot take also anything. You cannot, you do not expect that "I don't have to pay anything, so it is very good profit." No, sir, you cannot take also anything. If I would have taken all the sales produced of the book selling, then you would not work. Because although it is my books, I do not take any profit or any sales proceeds, therefore you work. Similarly, these rascals, the proprietor of the factories, if they do not take anything, they will also agree not to take anything. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then the solution is there.

Yogeśvara: So in other words the workers are unsatisfied because they see that the managers are exploiting them, but if they see the managers are giving the money to Kṛṣṇa, they will feel satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and they will also give. Kṛṣṇa becomes the proprietor. Everyone is satisfied.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore, if they have no knowledge what is sinful, simply by instruction, "Don't do something sinful," so what is the use? They must know. We give in the beginning, in our society, "These are are sinful activities." What is that? Meat-eating, sinful activity. And gambling, illicit sex, and intoxication. You must give it up. All these European and American boys, they were habituated to all these things from the very birth. They did not know they are sinful. But since they have come to me, I have said, "These things are sinful." They have given up. And just compare with their character, with their behavior... (break)

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etām (taranti te)

(BG 7.14)

So we must know what is the law of nature, what nature wants. Nature does not want at least human being should be sinful. Then you will be punished.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: I would say "If he has no brain, what is the use of going to a meeting?" (laughter) Our only... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The men are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. What they will do? Meeting of the dogs, hogs, camels and asses will be any beneficial to the society? We are very pessimistic, and our conclusion, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is dogs, hogs, camels, asses, that's all. No brain, animal. Animal has got brain: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life. So these people, they have got brain for that purposes only. That is animal life. Actually, they do not know what is the aim of life, why people should be educated, why human society should be organized. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Enamored by these big, big buildings. That's all. "Oh, they are so advanced." And naturally, the common man comes to the European or American city, he says, "Oh, Americans are very rich." "Rich" means they have piled up stones and bricks, that's all. This is their richness. What is there in the richness here? But people are common men. They think that this piling of bricks and stone is like real civilization. What do you think? Is that real civilization?

Yogeśvara: No.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

M. Roost: I think so. But this, the ultimate, is very, very far for European people, I think. It's like in the yoga of Patañjali, it's eight-part.

Prabhupāda: Aṣṭāṅga-yoga, aṣṭāṅga.

M. Roost: Yes, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. The last part of the evolution. I think first we must through the body find the balance. With the balance of our body, we can go after the balance of our ego, of cessation, and after this, perhaps, we are able to sacrifice all to the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Sacrifice for whom?

M. Roost: Yes. Without intention.

Satsvarūpa: The Lord, he said.

M. Roost: Without personal intention.

Prabhupāda: I'll speak.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bhagavān: European dogs.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) First of all, they were importing European masters, and now they are importing dogs. Now they will have to import European brāhmaṇas. Yes. Because in India all the brāhmaṇas are now finished. So for their ritualistic ceremony they will have to import from Europe, America. Long ago... Long ago, not long ago, about four, five years ago, I wrote this fact. (break) ...the communists, as they making, that the state is the proprietor of everything, so what is the harm of accepting God as the proprietor of everything? What is the harm? He is giving up his own right. The state is the proprietor. So why not make "God is the proprietor"? What is the harm? And actually, God is the proprietor. Now, this lake, it is not made by the state. It is made by God. They are claiming this is Swiss lake. What is that?

Yogeśvara: Geneva lake.

Prabhupāda: Geneva lake. And a few steps forward, a French lake. So either to the French or Geneva, it does not belong. It belongs to God. He's a fool. Why don't you say, "God's lake"?

Yogeśvara: We could propose them that they change the name, but I think they might be afraid it would drive away the tourists.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Dr. Sallaz: I'm sure it is possible, from what we have seen and made. But it is not of great interest to make gold.

Prabhupāda: No, we are interested. (laughter) We want gold for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nobody is paying us. We are simply selling our books. That's all. Nobody paying us, no government, no..., that "You take so many million dollars for spreading Kṛṣṇa..." Nobody. Therefore we require some gold. So biology, what is the basic principle of biology?

Yogeśvara: Do you understand his question?

Dr. Sallaz: Yes. Le principe, c'est la vie, life. And what is life? It is energy, speaking in European language.

Prabhupāda: Life, what is his life?

Yogeśvara: He says it is energy, life is energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whose energy? Whose energy? Wherefrom the energy comes?

Dr. Sallaz: From very, very high up.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. It is... This matter is also energy, and life is also energy. So according to Bhagavad-gītā, this life, or the living being, is superior energy, and the matter is inferior energy. So this living being is combination of the superior and inferior energy. But the superior energy is not matter. It is spirit.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Kapila, this Kapila is atheist Kapila. He's a different Kapila. Original Kapila is the son of Devahūti, son of Kardama Muni and Devahūti. That is described in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, God. Kapila. And actually, he enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy. And this sāṅkhya philosophy which is known in Europe amongst the European scholars, that is the atheist Kapila. It is not the original Kapila.

Prof. Regamay: So that's not a true Kapila.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Regamay: And Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra. Read, read that chapter.

Yogeśvara: He says this seems to be somewhat different from the traditional Hindu practice, since in the Manu-saṁhitā, for example, śūdras are not to be instructed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but we do not keep him śūdra. A devotee is no longer śūdra. We are creating brāhmaṇas. Just like these Europeans and Americans. They, according to Manu-saṁhitā, they are mlecchas, yavanas. But we are not keeping them mlecchas and yavanas. Just like these European and American boys. They are accepting the Vedic regulatives principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. So they are no more śūdras or caṇḍālas. They are brāhmaṇas.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: So it is said, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), according to quality and work. When one is educated in the quality of brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava, and he works like a brāhmaṇa, he is no longer śūdra or caṇḍāla or yavana. He is brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava.

M. Roche-dieu: Living being.

Prabhupāda: Living, any living. We are all living beings. We are in different dresses. Just like you are European; you have got a different dress. I am an Indian; I have got a different dress. But dress is not consideration. You are a human being; I am a human being. Similarly, all the living entities, they are dressed in 8,400,000's of dresses. But they are living being. And all the living beings are part and parcel of God.

M. Roche-dieu: (French) Life is a whole view, and there is no division between animals and man.

Prabhupāda: Spiritually advanced man, God conscious, there is no such distinction that "Here is an animal; here is a man." He sees that spirit soul is there in the animal and in the man, in the tree, in the plant, in the aquatics, the same spirit soul.

Yogeśvara: (translates) And in that situation, always thinking of God like that, our philosophy is that naturally these others things, charity, humanitarian works, they will all come naturally?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). As soon as you become a unalloyed devotee of God, all the good qualities will manifest in you. If the good qualities does not manifest in you, that means you are not yet perfect in God consciousness. Just like you European boys, American boys, why you have given... (break) ...one of the item is that good quality that "Why shall I give trouble, pain, to other animals?" This is within the God consciousness. Just like poor-feeding. This program we also follow. In our temple, especially in India, any man can come and take his food. Yes. We have got arrangement. In the U.S.A also, Los Angeles, New York, we invite anyone, "Come and take food." We don't want to see that anyone is hungry. We don't want to see. So God consciousness means all the good ideas we are manufacturing, they will be manifested in God consciousness automatically. Therefore our duty should be, if we want to make all human being well-behaved, then we must try to make every one of them God conscious.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: So who is coming?

Guru-gaurāṅga: There is one more meeting today.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Guru-gaurāṅga: There is the European Center for Nuclear Research.

Prabhupāda: What can I do there? (laughter)

Guru-gaurāṅga: This man has worked in India... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...for B.A. examination. So the father failed, and the daughter passed. Yes, because the old man cannot take education. In Bhāgavata also it is recommended, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāga... (SB 7.6.1). Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very beginning of life. The more younger, you capture it. Just like we were educated from the very birth by our father. The same thing, what I am doing now in larger scale, I did in my childhood, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship and Ratha-yātrā, the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Now they're saying we have increased so many beds, that means suffering has increased. They are thinking that they have done so good in this so many hospitals, and so many beds have been increased but that means suffering has increased. Otherwise why is the necessity of the beds and the hospitals?

Robert Gouiran: Yes. It's not because some American hospital are not healer that healing does not exist.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they're trying, everyone is trying to heal, American or Englishman or European, it doesn't matter. Everyone is trying but there is no healing. That is our point.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He's saying that there is a value to temporary healing.

Prabhupāda: That's a... Temporary value, we also give but we say there is no healing.

Yogeśvara: Ah, yes, healing in the sense that it will never happen again.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It is in his mind, that he thinks that he is healed. Just like if you have a disease and then you have terrible disease that produces headache and so you take aspirin to relieve the headache, but still the disease is there. So he thinks, "I am O.K. now."

Robert Gouiran: Wait, I say that taking aspirin is not a good healing.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is example. The disease is still there.

Robert Gouiran: Well, but it is by such example that we could be misled.

Prabhupāda: That is good thing, that is healing? Do you think honestly, there is healing? There is no disease?

Robert Gouiran: I have seen healings.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: To tell you that you are not following. (laughter)

Priest: But then there is no need to dress as you dress.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Priest: Why do you dress in that way which is an Indian way and not the European way?

Prabhupāda: Then why Christian go there?

Priest: They should not.

Prabhupāda: Then we should not.

Priest: Not because they do something wrong that somebody else has to do something wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Thing is that just like there are scholars, the scholars also go. Just like you are doing in India. Why did you go to India? Why did you go to India and live there and (indistinct)? Anyone can come to study, to learn how to teach. That is human society. You cannot say that "You don't come here." You cannot say.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: I know, but for a European to dress as an Indian...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Europeans go to India, and why the Indians should not come to Europe?

Priest: True.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that "Why you have come here?" You cannot say.

Jyotirmayī: No, no. He's saying why are we dressing like that, like Indians?

Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?

Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?

Priest: It's not wrong. It's funny.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Satsvarūpa: They think if you eliminate those, there is nothing left to live for.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Rāyarāma's statement. Yes. I am denying the bare necessities of life. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Who will try for becoming perfect in this way? Very disappointing. But still, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that helping so many. They are doing actually. All right, keep it.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya's program is so attractive that even...

Prabhupāda: That is the astonishment. In India, they give me credit this, that "How it has become possible that these European boys, American boys and girls, they have taken to this path?" That they are surprised.

Yogeśvara: We don't have a very good reputation in India?

Prabhupāda: Very good reputation that you have become perfectly Vaiṣṇava.

Devotee: No, he means the western people themselves.

Prabhupāda: "They must be cynic, crazy, another edition of hippies." Like that, they say like that.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: She says it is only the body that is different.

Prabhupāda: Only body difference? The man who is there has got body different. The, the Africans, they have got different body. And the Europeans have different body. There are so many men. The aborigines have got different body. So there so many men, human also.

Yogeśvara: So then that is not the real difference?

Prabhupāda: So what is the real difference, that I want to explain.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: So what is her reply?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: Suppose a child has a different body...

Lady (3): (French)

Yogeśvara: This young lady suggests that the animals do have a soul, and that they also pass from body to body, and perhaps ultimately can come to the human form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the explanation. You are right.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: This is our process.

Professor Durckheim: A long way to get there.

Prabhupāda: And the process is going on. The chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, by this process they fully realize that, the master, the Supreme Being, and engages himself always. These European, American boys, they are all educated. Not... In your country, of course, the young men...

Professor Durckheim: They are educated too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization. That active principle is soul, and the soul is migrating from one body to another as you are migrating from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So the soul is the same. The body is different. The body is material and the soul is spiritual. When one comes to this understanding, that is self-realization.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And I do believe that at the actual moment still, the treasure in the European peoples, the different peoples, who went through the war, through concentration camps, through battlefields and bombing nights, are hidden in their hearts certain moments when death was near and they were wounded and nearly torn in pieces. Because they had a certain experience they survived. And again and again, when I give a lecture, I have two or three people, waiting, telling me, "Now you just reminded me an experience long ago, ten days ago, two months ago, when I thought I was a little bit crazy, and now I understand it has been the experience, perhaps the most important of my life, on which I should have built my future inner way." And these experiences are still there. And once people understand, they don't need a war and a battleship and a concentration camp and a bombing night to take serious certain inner experiences when they are suddenly are touched by this divine reality, and they suddenly feel that this bodily existence is not lasting at all.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That we can experience every night.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: When we dream, my body is left on the bed and I go somewhere. That we experience, that I am separate from this body. At that time I forget my, this body is lying down on the bed. I am acting in a different atmosphere. So and again, in daytime, I forget that at night I was in a different body, and I went to such and such place or on the sky I was flying. I forget. At night I forget this body and at daytime I forget that body. But I am existing. Therefore I am not this body. I am existing in this body and that body, but that body I have forgotten, and this body I forget. So this is a structure on my mind only. Actually I am different from the mind. And that is self-realization. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ (BG 3.42). Find out this verse. Manasas tu parā buddhir buddhes tu yaḥ saḥ. That's it. It is in the Third Chapter, I think.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then. Otherwise.... We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, "I am Indian", (indistinct). Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I think you missed that verse, jagato ahitāya. Anyway, these are the description of demonic activities. So this is practical. The last two disastrous war was waged only for this industry. This is the cause. German, they are actually in Europe very intelligent and their machine products and other things, they make very nice things. At least, I have got experience, German chemicals are first-class chemical. So they manufacture and British occupied the half of the world in their colonization, whole Africa, and they controlled India and China, Japan, yes, China, Burma, Ceylon, Australia. So these poor people, they manufactured. They have got goods enough; where to sell? As soon as they go to the British territories, "No, you cannot sell. If you want to sell, then hundred percent duty." So price increase. This was the grudge. Everyone knows. This is the cause of two wars. The jagato ahita. Now, why so much? You require a scissor? Go to a blacksmith and pay something. He'll make a scissor. "No. Produce millions of scissor." Then where is market, sir? This is going on. Produce millions of TV machine. Simple they are used for wasting time. One or two or five made for some important business. Now they are producing millions of sets. They must sell. And people are induced to purchase. And as soon as they purchase, they simply see television. Idol worship. And learning vicious things. Some unnecessary picture is produced there. They like to see it. Two train are coming and they are smashed. (laughs) I have seen some television. People are learning how to smash, how to steal, how to harass people. Things are being shown like that. Not that "You are soul. You are spirit soul. If you degrade yourself, you then get this." You make that television, that how transmigration of the soul is taking place. They have manufactured the machine, so utilize for your propaganda. We have got to do so many things. We can utilize everything. So if they are not used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose they'll be used for committing disaster in the world. Just like the atomic bomb. They are meant for creating disaster, that's all. What else they can do? And now everyone is having atomic weapon, just like India has now got. That means they are preparing, by nature's course they are preparing for war, and "I put my atomic bomb on your head, and you put on my head. You die, I die, that's all." They simply die. Now what was the result of the disastrous war twice? The whole European nations ruined. They are not no more rich. I saw in Paris, in Germany. They are not as rich as the Americans.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: (making notes on tape) Morning, 11 September, 1974, Vṛndāvana. Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying that manager and assisting managers is not difficult, except that all the European and American boys didn't understand the concept of prabhu. We each call each other prabhu, but we are thinking that "I am prabhu and all others are servants." Not that the one I am calling prabhu or the one who is calling me prabhu are mutual prabhus. (break)

Brahmānanda: He's typing the tapes now. To type one tape takes him about eight hours.

Prabhupāda: Eight hours?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How is that?

Brahmānanda: That is the usual time.

Devotee (1): It's not possible.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): It's not possible to take so long.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: I remember those days immediately when I see the sea.

Haṁsadūta: You were getting seasick?

Prabhupāda: No, I liked it. Although I was sick, still, I liked it. Day and night, for thirty-five days.

Haṁsadūta: I came to America in the same way, but I was always sick. I didn't like it.

Prabhupāda: The sea journey is very good provided there is no sea-sickness. Otherwise very bad. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... (break) ...all of our books in different languages. At least all the European languages. America is one language.

Guru-kṛpa: South America.

Prabhupāda: South America, different languages. Spanish.

Guru-kṛpa: Spanish, Portuguese.

Prabhupāda: Hare Rāma Hare... What about that Japanese translation? Something is done or not?

Guru-kṛpa: Just a magazine.

Prabhupāda: No. His wife was translating Japanese?

Bali Mardana: It has to be checked over.

Guru-kṛpa: There is a girl in Tokyo who is very expert.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Caracas.

Hṛdayānanda: And then Puerto Rico. Then Miami, Atlanta, New York, London.

Prabhupāda: And then, from London, I may go directly to Bombay, or I may visit some other European cities where we have got temple. In Paris, in Geneva, in Rome, in Amsterdam, we have got some temple, like this.

Professor: What you're going to do about...?

Prabhupāda: You have seen all our books? These are our books.

Professor: I saw them.(?) I think I had a talk somewhere with...

Prabhupāda: We have got our small and big book. Fifty books we have got. All about Kṛṣṇa.

Professor: I understand that music plays an important role also in the preparation of...

Hṛdayānanda: If music is important to us?

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, our basic principle is pleasure. So whatever gives pleasure, we accept. That is natural. But in the material world, they take material pleasure, but we are for spiritual pleasure. So as soon as we speak of pleasure, there must be varieties. Without... Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So the only thing is that the material pleasure, that is temporary. It is finished after certain period, and spiritual means eternal. So our endeavor is to transfer ourself from this material pleasure to the spiritual pleasure. But the pleasure is the aim, either in this material world or in the spiritual world. This is... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedic... Our position is ānandamaya, to remain in pleasure. But here in this material world, the body is temporary, and everything is temporary. Therefore pleasure is temporary.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Hanumān: This gentleman is the director of the Great Universal Fraternity here in Mexico. They're the biggest, probably the biggest yoga society in South America. They are following one guru, a European, it's called Bhakta (indistinct), and he's very interested to have your darśana.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa, Yogeśvara.

Hṛdayānanda: You speak English?

Director: No.

Hṛdayānanda: (Spanish) (translates throughout)

Prabhupāda: ...master of all mystic yoga. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. What is that verse? Yatra yogeśvara, Bhagavad-gītā. Who will find out? Yes, in the last portion of the Eighteenth Chapter. Yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārtho yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. I think it begins with yatra.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying, "What is sin, then?"

Prabhupāda: That sin you have explained. These are the four principles of sinful life. This can be avoided. Just like these European, American boys. They were also addicted to these sinful activities, but now they have given up, and they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. Material life means sinful life. Therefore we have to act materially under regulation. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he has to live under the direction of the physician. Otherwise his sufferings will continue. (break)

Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)

Hṛdayānanda: I'm going to translate piece by piece so I can tell you exactly what he's saying. He's saying that he understands perfectly well that a human being should look for a way for self-control and to control the physical force within him, but there's also another dimension in the human being which is a social dimension which also has to be taken care of.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the social dimension is described, cātur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in European history many, many people, in the name of looking for transcendence, there have been so many wars, hatred between men, and, you may know, in Spain they had what is called the Inquisition where they burned so many people. And so he's saying, psychologically, that his brain tells him that in the name of searching after transcendence there has been so much bad, so how is this different?

Prabhupāda: The difference is transcendence is beyond our mind, bodily activities, mental activities or intelligence. The European philosophers and transcendentalists, they do not know actually what is transcendence. They understand that there is something, but they do not know what it is. Therefore they speculate by their imperfect senses. Gradually it becomes craziness. Therefore you find that defect.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): So do you mean to say that this is just a contemplative thing that doesn't really have a active influence upon the society to change the different...?

Prabhupāda: No, we must first of all understand that our senses are imperfect. Just like we are sitting in this room. We have got our eyes, but we cannot see what is there, going on, beyond this wall. The sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and we are seeing just like a disc. So the eyelid is just near the eyes, but we cannot see what is the eyelids. If the light is off, we cannot see. So we can see under certain condition. Then what is the value of our seeing? If we, even if we manufacture telescope, that is also manufactured by the imperfect senses, so it is also not perfect. So anything understood by manipulating our imperfect senses, that is not real knowledge. So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge. Just like if we contemplate or speculate who is my father, it is never possible to understand who is my father. But if we receive the words from mother that "Here is your father," that is perfect. Therefore the process of knowledge should be not to speculate but to receive it from the perfect person. If we receive knowledge from a mental speculator, that is not perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, habit can be changed. Just like nobody is habituated smoking from the very beginning of his life, but by association he learns smoking. And again, by association he can give it up. These boys, American, European boys, they were habituated so many bad things. Now they have given up.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can we know what is good and what is bad? How can we define them?

Prabhupāda: When you come to the good, you will understand what is good. When you come to the bad, you understand what is bad.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He does not understand.

Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: Has been a little bit too intolerant. In the past they were a little bit pushy. But now they have stopped.

Prabhupāda: No, if anyone reads our books, then he will accept it. Therefore we are trying to publish all our books in different languages.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How is our movement doing in India?

Prabhupāda: India, it is already there. Every person is Kṛṣṇa conscious in India.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's asking, "Everyone in India?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone, by nature they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, but the modern leaders, they are trying to divert their attention. The leaders are trying to make them Kṛṣṇa unconscious. (laughter) Because they are of opinion that "Being Kṛṣṇa conscious, India is so backward. So we have to become American conscious or European conscious." That is their...

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): It was a great pleasure that you invited us to your...

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. So you are welcome whenever you have got time. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That means they are not in knowledge. That I am speaking, the barking dog. First of all make experiment, produce life. Then come and say. Otherwise don't bark like a dog, imitation. Simply big, big words. Produce. Our theory is that... In the śāstra it is said harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nās... (CC Adi 17.21). That practical proof we are giving, that these Europeans, Americans, they are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and how they are coming out, this practical proof. They did not know five or six years ago what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa's name. But we are taking the conclusion of the śāstra: in this age, if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes spiritualized. That is becoming, practically. It is not theory. How so many devotees are in this Atlanta, here? Anywhere, wherever we have started, how they have become devotee? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You follow this formula and you will become God conscious." That is being practically proved. It is not theory. So that is Vedic knowledge. You adopt Vedic knowledge and get the result, not that "This ammonia, this chemical, that chemical, but I cannot do anything." The rascal said, "That I cannot say."

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Practical is that our śāstra says that pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The idea is that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they know how to make his child immortal. Because soul is immortal but he is entangled in this material body, therefore death takes place. Actually soul is not born, na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this process is going on, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The father and mother should be so enlightened and educate the son in such a way that this is the last acceptance of material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he may not accept again this material body. If the father and mother is determined in that way, then they should become parents, otherwise no.

Guest (1): Swamiji, I think, you know, you are very right but we are the one in India who face this problem the most. We should not have gone to this stage which we are, six hundred million people. I think the most of us are, you know, procreating without any thoughts about the next generation.

Prabhupāda: Then that is not for Indian and European, that is for everyone. That ignorance and knowledge is everywhere. It is not the Indian or American. That ignorance is everywhere.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: India what do you mean by? Not the modern India. India was the whole world.

Devotee (1): So all the different kinds of human beings actually were originated there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. First, second, third. Then fourth is the śūdras. And the fifth, caṇḍālas: no Vedic culture. They are caṇḍālas. So the Europeans, they were kṣatriyas originally. On account of Paraśurāma's massacre process, they fled from India to European side. And Greece and Rome, they were given—I think, Turkey also—given to two sons of Mahārāja Yayāti. They refused the order of the father. The father was very licentious. So he begged from two sons that "You give me your youth." They refused. So therefore they were banished in this part of the world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Into England.

Prabhupāda: Not England. Greece, Rome, Turkey. Next to India, they were civilized. So European race mostly come from that part. Caucasian. Kaśyapa Muni. Central India. Er, central... What is called? Asia, Asia.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: They were not properly doing their duties. So Paraśurāma said, "I will kill all of them." Formerly kṣatriyas were guided by the brāhmaṇas, even Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all the rules and regulations. But the brāhmaṇas were the legislative assembly. And kṣatriyas were the executive, and the vaiśyas, productive, and śūdras worker. At the present moment there is no director, neither executive. Some of them are only productive, and some of them are worker, most of them. Therefore it is said, kalau śūdraḥ-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga, mostly all the people are śūdras. Because they are workers. (break) Everyone can be purified, even the caṇḍālas. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). Yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. Yavanas means these European groups, and khasādayaḥ, Mongolian group: China, Japan. So Japanese were there in Vedic age also. Kālayavana. Kālayavana fought with Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Indian man: No, but there may be so many other things over which he has no control.

Prabhupāda: Other things, that is anartha. If you are really enthusiastic, these anarthas will be vanquished automatically. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). They are all Europeans, Americans, they are from the childhood accustomed to meat-eating. How they have given up? Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate: they have got better things to eat, therefore they have given up meat-eating. So the rules and regulation are there; if we follow them strictly, then everything one after another will come, the stages.

Indian man: Then it is not necessary that one should join the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement for that type of helping.

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand. I have said sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83).

Indian man: That's all.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Guest (2): Even Indians, the same. I...

Prabhupāda: The Indians, European, doesn't matter. The whole human society is like that.

Haṁsadūta: His idea is why should we make this sex life so cumbersome by marriage?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Avoid it.

Haṁsadūta: It's a natural thing just to have sex.

Guest (2): You are following your principles, the four principles...

Prabhupāda: Avoid it. They are regularly advertising. I have seen in Dallas, "topless, bottomless," like that.

Haṁsadūta: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. What can be done. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti (BG 7.25). They do not know that behind everything there is a supreme power. He'll punish. "Never mind, we shall be punished." You'll become dog. "Oh what is the wrong if I become a dog?" They say like that, "What is the wrong?" He thinks that "I'll get good facilities for sex. There will be no need of apartment. I'll save the rent. To become a dog and have sex life on the street, it is good facility." This is going on.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You have to judge by the fruits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot teach your own people, and you are going to teach others. "Physician heal thyself." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greets someone.) You have failed to teach your own children, they are disappointed, and you are going to teach others. This is another cheating. It is not the question of... That is another fault—"our," "your." There is no question of "our," "your." Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "You have to change your body," Kṛṣṇa never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayādvaita: The karmīs will say that materialistic culture is also meant for the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we admit. The materialistic culture, how to eat nicely, that is meant for everyone. Everyone wants to eat nicely, not that only Europeans want, not the Indians. That is material. To sleep nicely in a good apartment, that is wanted by both the Easterners and Westerners. So there is no discrimination. Sex life, that is meant for everyone. So as material life is also meant for everyone, similarly, spiritual life is also meant for everyone.

Jayādvaita: So there are only two cultures.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayādvaita: The deva culture and asura culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the human form of life, one should take advantage of the spiritual culture because in other forms of life it is not possible. This is the main thing. You become Indian or American, it doesn't matter. You are human being. Take to this culture and you will be happy. This is our mission. We want to make everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone be happy"—with Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So our task is very difficult, and especially all these prohibitive rules: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or chewing pan. So who will accept this philosophy? It is very difficult. Nobody can. Unless he is very serious about Kṛṣṇa, nobody will take. They have not taken. These principles are our Indian principles. Striyas-suna-pana dyutaḥ yatra pāpas catur vidhaḥ. But who is taking this? Now they are becoming expert in intoxication, drinking wine. You see. This is India's position. In Europe, America, they do that because there was no such philosophy. But India... Here it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya karmaṇām (BG 7.28). That, nobody's interested. Everyone is doing all sorts of sinful activities. And Kṛṣṇa says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. He can understand Kṛṣṇa. But nobody is prepared to give up sinful activities. And how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is not very easy to be understood. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). One who is siddha, perfect, yatatām api siddhānām... (BG 7.3). Out of many millions of siddhas, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. This is... These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody cares for that. He lives in his own way, and he has become a big authority. That's all. This rascaldom is going on. Only these few European and American boys, they have taken my words seriously. And therefore, with their help, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is moving. Otherwise, where is Indian? You are young men. If I say, "You come and join us," you won't do it. But they have done it.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You have seen that Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, Kṛṣṇa footprint.

Devotee: That means Kṛṣṇa must have been fifteen or twenty feet tall?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) But it is a fact formerly people were taller. We have seen. In our childhood we have seen, when European, they were very tall.

Devotee: They were taller and they lived longer.

Devotee (2): That story about King Mucukunda when he was sleeping in the cave and he came out of the cave and looked outside and he said, "Oh, it must be Kali-yuga." because the trees were smaller and...

Prabhupāda: Do you (indistinct) ...the mango trees now? Some of the trees (indistinct), the lemon tree, stunted. In Japan they grow many trees.

Devotee: In Japan they cultivate trees to be like that, very small. They have little orange trees. Orange trees are this big, orange trees.

Prabhupāda: They are also becoming oranges. Japanese enjoy.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Sil. Sil means cultured. A cultured man is called sil. Sushil. Sushil means very culture, very... Sushil. So kalo brahm... This is unnatural. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, kanki chele... (indistinct) Now generally people, we saw, in our childhood, Europeans were very tall and now they are not coming (indistinct). Naturally when they'll not get sufficient nourishment, they'll be stunted. And Kali-yuga means decrease of nourishment, necessities of life decreasing. We see in such a rich man's house, there is no milk. Milk is one of the important nourishment foods. And there is no milk. So gradually there'll be no milk, no rice, no wheat, no sugar. These are stated. Where you'll get nourishment? And the mango, there'll be no pulp, only the seed. These are predicted. After all, you have to live by nature's gift, but these things will be finished. And Russia there is, already there is no rice. There is no fruit. There is no vegetable. Simply we eat meat.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all śāstras. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although śāstra does not say so. Śāstra says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in pāpa-yoni"... Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.

Governor: We have right example of Vālmīki.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Vālmīki. There were many. There were, are many. Nārada. Nārada was a son of a maidservant, śūdra. He had no father. So dāsī-putra. And he became Nārada. So where is the restriction? Similarly, in the Jabalopaniṣad, Satyakāma Jabala, he was also a prostitute's son. And he approached Gautama Muni, "You kindly make me your disciple." Gautama Muni said, "What you are?" "I am my mother's son, that's all." "Then who is your father?" "That I do not know." "Ask your mother." So mother replied, "My dear son, I do not know who is your father." And he came and said to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know who is my father." Then Gautama Muni said, "Yes, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall..." Because speaking truth.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on—the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That's it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin's literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But if you become high quality or high class, then automatically you attract that type of person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can do. You American people, you can do. That I am instructing. You can do. And actually, because some of you will cooperate the movement is going on. Therefore I came to America. When I found that in India no intelligent boys were coming, then I decided, "Let me go to America."

Paramahaṁsa: Still, even after you went to America and brought back so many European and American disciples, still the Indians are so slow to come and join.

Prabhupāda: Because they have been... The disease is very chronic. They are not opulent. That diagnosis already given. They have become poverty-stricken. So daridra-doṣa guṇa naśe. Although they are born in India, they have got many qualification, due to this poverty-stricken position, they... Their first business is how to... Because they have got family attachment, so they cannot sacrifice. They will work very, very hard. You have seen how they are going to office, how..., because they have got the responsibility of family. That is Indians another feature. They take family responsibility. In your country there is no such thing. There is no family. There is no family responsibility. In India still that old tradition is going on. Therefore they cannot sacrifice the family responsibility, although they are willing. And the whole thing is it is due to poverty-stricken position. They have got family responsibilities. They think, "If I go, then whole family will starve. How can I go?" That is the exact position. And to come to that stage, that "Let my family starve, I don't mind," that is very higher stage. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Oh, no responsibility, simply I have got respons..." That is not ordinary stage. You cannot expect these things from ordinary man.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: In Fiji there are many Indians.

Indian boy: Yes, there are.

Prabhupāda: The language is in Hindi? Fiji?

Indian boy: Indians speak Hindi, Fijians they speak Fijian.

Prabhupāda: Fijians they are Europeans? No.

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: They are natives.

Indian boy: Natives.

Prabhupāda: They are civilized? No.

Indian boy: I suppose they are. (laughs) Many of them. Those who live a long time near Lautoka.

Paramahaṁsa: He says those who live in the cities, they are civilized. But others, they live in the villages, not very civilized. You have any other question?

Indian boy: No.

Prabhupāda: They have questions? No. (pause) You have got desire to become a devotee?

Indian boy: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: You have a desire to become devotee?

Indian boy: Yes, I have.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Without cooking.

Justin Murphy: No cooking. No cooking. Immediately, wiggling. The fresher the better. They used to eat small furry animals, bandicoots, wombats. There were no rabbits, of course, in those days. Rabbit has been a disaster introduced by man, by European man. But they used to occasionally pound the grass seeds from a few species of arid sand grasses and make a kind of an unleavened bread, which they would then bake. But generally the aborigines were nomadic, they were shifting, and they didn't cultivate. They didn't till the soil ever. But we must, whilst attempting to provide for the inevitable Australian people and the growth of population, we must also try to do that within the confines and the dictates of nature and the natural resources which we have. Australia is very rich in a lot of natural resources; it's very, very poor in others. It is quite poor in water, and, of course, water is absolutely basic to the growth process. Australia has abundant sunlight, solar energy, which is the basis of photosynthesis.

Prabhupāda: Vegetable.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But so many of us, of course, are used to it. We like it.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking about you particularly, but general way, general way. So this is first-class man. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā. Now, suppose I was not a first-class man; I was a fourth-class man. Now I want to become a first-class man. So I was eating meat. Just these boys, European, American boys, they were eating everything. Now they have given up. On my word or to associate with me, they have given up meat-eating, illicit sex, meat-eating. So in the beginning it may be disturbing because "I am habituated to all these things, and by my spiritual master order not to do this..." So it may be disturbing. But that is called titikṣā, tolerance: "No, I have to do it. If I want to make progress to become first-class man, this is order, so I must do it even..." The tolerance. Even it is disturbing... In the beginning. It is not disturbing. In the beginning, because I habituated to do something... Just like a thief. If you ask him to become honest, it will be disturbing for him because he is habituated to steal.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But all knowledge comes from the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Greek history is about three thousand years. (break) ...During the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit's grandson. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the grandson of Yudhiṣṭhira, and Yudhiṣṭhira ruled over five thousand years ago. So the Yayāti... Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's grandson is Parīkṣit. His son is Janamejaya. And his son is Yayāti. And his son started Greek and Roman Empire. So therefore the Greek history is not more than three thousand years. Mahārāja Yayāti banished his two sons to the European quarters. Mleccha-yavana. Later on they became yavana, from Vedic culture deviated. This is the history.

Amogha: He sent them there for conquering?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. He gave him, that "You take that place."

Amogha: Oh. "This is your kingdom."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every, all world was emperor, the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and the family. Sa-sāgara. Sa-sāgara means "including all the oceans." That means the whole world. There was one flag only during the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. And he first saw the cow-killing maybe in Africa or in Arabia. One black man was trying to kill a cow, and Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on tour, and immediately he punished him. That is Kali. The black man means Africa. Or where other place, black men?

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Rāmacandra made a plan?

Prabhupāda: No, Mahīrāvaṇa. And in that plan he was killed. (break) That is Indo-European civilization. The kings came from India, and he developed. Therefore it is called Indo-European civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: The scientists and the archaeologists are very amazed to find the structures, the buildings that they had in their civilization. They can't understand how they were built, such huge pillars and gigantic stones. They don't know how they were put into place.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the Jagannātha temple is also like that. They suggest that they manufacture, and then they surround with sand, then further manufacture. And when it is complete the sand is taken away. Otherwise how it is put into...? The sand is stacked just like this. The temple is being manufactured, and the sand is thrown all side, and when it is finished, the sand is taken away.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: ...to solve the problem of drug and alcohol addiction and, of course, they're concerned with the causes of it and things like that.

Prabhupāda: So you can send all these alcohol and drug patients here and they will be cured. These boys, American and European boys, they were all addicted to alcohol, drugs. Now they have given up. Practical.

Guest (1): In what way would they cure?

Prabhupāda: Simply I say that "If you want to be my student, then you must give up four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling." This is my condition. So they give up, and they become my student.

Guest (2): Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?

Paramahaṁsa: He says, "Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?" Sometimes when a patient is giving up alcohol or drugs, he goes through various symptoms which are painful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That should be... But unless... Find out this, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Rasa-varjaṁ raso 'py asya paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: He says he finds it not practical because not everyone who is addicted to drugs can spend six months in a temple with us.

Prabhupāda: They are spending years. They are all European, Americans. They are not Indians. We have got here... You go to Melbourne. We have got big branch. In Sydney we have got. In Europe. They are doing that. It requires training, proper training. Then it will be done.

Guest (1): Well, if there is someone who wouldn't like to perhaps join this religion, but still wants to get treated...

Prabhupāda: This is not religion. This is a culture.

Guest (1): Oh. Yes, this culture...

Prabhupāda: Because we are admitting persons from various religions, various nations, various countries, and they accept this culture and they become purified.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: India, in Calcutta, my family is there in Calcutta.

Journalist: You live in New York?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I travel all over the world. My, in America headquarter, Los Angeles. And European headquarter, London.

Journalist: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness connected with any other religion? Does it derive from Hinduism or Buddhism?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can call it Hinduism, but actually it does not belong to any "ism." It is a science of understanding God. But it appears like Hindu religion. In that sense Buddha religion is also Hindu religion, because Lord Buddha was a Hindu and he started Buddha religion.

Journalist: Do you think modern man must mend his ways or he will... he must get better and know God or he will destroy himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is destroying already. The society is not in stable stage. Just like in America, they are also in trouble now. They are asking money from the federal government. They cannot make solution. So as soon as the monetary source will decline, this civilization will be finished.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then I began translating from 1968 or '69. And I published my first book in 1962. Then next was in 1964. And then the third volume was published in 1965. And then I came to America. And then I translated all these books, whatever you see, about fifty books. This is about eleven hundred pages. Other books are not less than four hundred pages.

Dr. Copeland: Oh, yes. I have many in my shelf like these. Where and when did you learn English?

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta. I was educated in a college. My professors were all Europeans.

Dr Copeland: Which college?

Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches' College. You know that? In our time Dr. Watt, he was principal. And I was student of philosophy of Dr. W. S. Urquhart. He was my professor. And our English professor was Mr. Cameron,(?) Mr. Scrimgeour, Mr. Warren. And I was student of economics also. One Mr. Keith, he was also... All our professors were Scotsmen, Englishmen.

Dr. Copeland: And after you left the college, were you employed?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was appointed manager of a very big laboratory, Dr. Bose's laboratory.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is brāhmaṇa. We do not serve anyone, any merchant, officer, any... No. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa wants, He will give us food, or we shall starve. We are not going to serve. This is the proof. We are spending not less than twenty lakhs of rupees for maintaining our establishment throughout the whole world, but we do not know what is our next moment's income. We do not know... We have eaten today. We do not know whether we shall have any eatable next day. This is our position. If it is available, we shall eat; otherwise we shall starve. This is our position. Still, I don't seek any employment, "Give us some service to maintain our..." No, we don't do that. We never do that. When I was alone, I was not doing that. I was living alone. I had no income, no friend, no shelter. Since I left my home, since 1954, I never cared for anyone maintaining me. And there was no resource, fixed income, nothing of the sort. I depended on Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, in the whole society we are feeding daily ten thousand men.

We have got about hundred centers. And we are maintained in Eu..., just like European, American standard, not vagabond standard. But still, we have no fixed income. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants, He will give us food; if He wants, we shall starve. This is brāhmaṇa, practical. And "Now I have got all degrees, and unless I get a good master, then I am street dog." (Dr. Copeland laughs) That is śūdra. Without getting a master... Just like a street dog has no value unless he gets a good master. Then he can bark (Prabhupāda barks), "Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! I have got my master." And if he doesn't get a master, nobody cares for it, and he is lean and thin, here going, here going, that's all. This is śūdra. He has no power to live independently. That is śūdra.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: But how is it that a demon is worshiping the Lord? It says in the Bhāgavatam, he just read, that the demons are also worshiping the Lord in His personal abode.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the demon is promoted to the Vaikuṇṭha, they also become. Just like you are all now Vaiṣṇava. (laughter) Why don't you compare with yourself? The others are seeing, "What these mlecchas, yavanas, how they can become Vaiṣṇava?" They are seeing like that. Therefore they object. The Vṛndāvana, "How these Europeans can worship Deity?" They are protesting.

Devotee: We can show them this verse.

Prabhupāda: Well, there are many verses. When one is qualified, he is no longer demon. (break) ...big, big sannyāsīs. So I was a gṛhastha, they are now saying, "How this gṛhastha is doing? He was a gṛhastha. He never lived with us." They are saying in that way. (break) Tree has spread the roots solid standing. Just see how carefully.

Madhudviṣa: In the courtyard back at the temple I would like to grow one nim tree. Would that be nice?

Prabhupāda: Nim tree, how you can get?

Madhudviṣa: I think we can grow. Get some seed from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Scientists cannot purify the sea water and use it profusely. Why they are depending on rain? Let them purify it and take so much water.

Devotee: It's a very costly process, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore I am asking.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is practical. We can stop. Just like they have become saintly person. Everyone... India they are surprised that "How you have made these Europeans, Americans like this?" They are surprised. Because in India the brāhmaṇas and others, they were under impression that "These Western people, they are hopeless. They cannot be any advanced religionist or spiritual." So when they see we have got many temples in India, that they are worshiping Deity and managing everything, chanting, dancing, they are surprised. Many swamis came before me, but they could not transform. But it is not I who have transformed, but the method is so nice that they became transformed.

Director: But people will say a very small percentage of the population.

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: "Please accept me." The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Interviewer: Coming back to this question of the western type of civilization, do you feel that the success of the movement in the western society is an indication of the need being felt by the western man that has been lacking in spiritual ideologies?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But the thing is that they are very intelligent. There is no doubt about it. Materially, they are always advanced. Materially, when they are manufacturing machine of the airship, in India we are manufacturing sewing machine or cycle. I have seen in the World Fair the Indians were very proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine, whereas the Americans and Europeans, they were showing the how subtle machine of this jet plane are there. So materially, they are advanced. There is no doubt about it. Hundred years. But spiritually they are not. Therefore, I am an Indian, poor Indian—they are coming to me. Because they understand that spiritually... Not only me, any swami who go, they crowd to him, "If there is something spiritual?" Unfortunately, the other swamis, they go to exploit them, to cheat them. They do not... Neither they do know what is spiritual life; neither they could give them. For example, for the last two..., hundred years or more than that the swamis are going; not a single person was a Kṛṣṇa devotee in the history in the western countries.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...import lobster from India. I have seen it. Lobster from Cochin.

Bali-mardana: South India.

Prabhupāda: Ah, South India. Lobster and this, what is called? Labhanga...? Cloves. And these cashew. Cashew is produced in India. (break) ...big, big European companies for doing this business in Cochin.

Bali-mardana: They were set up by the British?

Prabhupāda: Yes, and Greeks. (break) Americans don't care for this business. They want machine.

Bali-mardana: They do not care for the clam business. (break) Europeans consider Americans a little bit barbarian, a little bit uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Bali-mardana: Because they say that they do not have very much manners, etiquette.

Prabhupāda: They say boys, they are boys.

Ambarīṣa: Unsophisticated.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. They are in the make-up, not yet fully civilized.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...advises Arjuna that "I am... The body and the soul different."

Dr. John Mize: The body and soul are different, yes. So it seems to me too.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is the beginning of spiritual education. People do not understand. I have seen many European big, big professors. They do not have any clear conception that the body and the soul, different.

Dr. John Mize: It still disturbs me, of course, how the body can influence the mind so much, the mind not being the soul apparently. But I know that when I get hit on the back of the head, my mind seems to blank out. Once in judo I recall having my carotid artery pressed and consciousness left. But it was very pleasant. It was not unpleasant at all.

Prabhupāda: No. Actually soul is above intelligence. Above intelligence. Our gross senses, that is our present perception, direct. And beyond these gross senses, there is the mind. And beyond the mind, there is intelligence. And beyond intelligence, there is soul. So come to that platform requires that meditation process to make the sense activities calm and quiet, mind settle, and then come to the intelligence platform, then come to the spiritual platform.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, did you speak about Kant's philosophy in that book also? Yes? He is very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kant is very popular. I was also a student of philosophy. In my student life my professors were all Europeans. I was student of Scottish Church's College in Calcutta. So one professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was our professor for psychology, metaphysics. Later on, he became the vice-chancellor of Calcutta University. A very nice gentleman.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Dr. Mize finds that he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa a little in the shower now. When he takes a shower, he chants a little.

Prabhupāda: One press reporter in the Berkeley University in the beginning, he wrote his article and he wrote that after hearing this Hare Kṛṣṇa for a few minutes, I came home chanting all the road, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." He gave this report.

Dharmādhyakṣa: I think many scholars have a hard time realizing how just by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is so nice and so easy.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: Simply eating?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in Vṛndāvana, as they will be advertised, many people will come, more people, because they will come rather surprisingly, "How the Europeans, Americans have become devotee and they have their temple?" That will be attractive for them. (break)

Brahmānanda: Should they advertise like that?

Prabhupāda: That is automatically being advertised. Just like our Māyāpur mandir is known as "Sahib mandir." (laughs) Sahib means European. (break) It is said that... Where is Nitāi?

Jayatīrtha: Nitāi?

Prabhupāda: That visitors coming in full bus?

Nitāi: Yes, yes. Yes, I have seen in the evenings many buses will come and park there. Everyone will get out and go see the Deities, take prasādam, take books.

Prabhupāda: So gradually it is becoming...

Jayadvaita: The buses come from town or from Delhi?

Nitāi: No, from Vṛndāvana. Tour... many pilgrims come, groups of pilgrims who are staying some place in Vṛndāvana, and then in the evening they will all get in their bus and come out and see our temple.

Rādhā-vallabha: Pilgrims come from all over India?

Prabhupāda: And when they will go back to their villages, they will advertise, that "There is a European temple now in Vṛndāvana." And they will come. (laughs) And even the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they are saying that is the best temple in... Is it not?

Nitāi: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: ...English?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.

Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But the barrister, he was English.

Prabhupāda: He was appointed because he was a big barrister. Formerly any European, he is very big. So he appointed a very big barrister.

Brahmānanda: Oh, he was a rich Indian.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: How he could get such a...

Prabhupāda: He was a medical man. Yes, rich, rich. (break) ...they have arranged to have the meeting with this Professor Dimmock?

Brahmānanda: I didn't ask. They were supposed to do it. (end)

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: We are searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge? The ultimate knowledge, Vedānta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means to understand the original source of everything. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of everything. Because human life is not a spot. That... The western people are lacking that understanding. We are thinking that this duration of life, say, for fifty to a hundred years, that is all. No. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body is not everything. We have to accept another body after death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are accepting different bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, infection. Just like if I infect some disease, I am creating that disease. If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these crimes means they do not get good association. Naturally they are developing. And now these boys, they are also Americans and Europeans. They are getting good association, and they are becoming free from all bad habits. We generally take bad character on the basis of illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So they were habituated to all... Because that is a system in the European, American life. But now they are free. That is Professor Judah's remark in his letter. Have you got that? Yes. He has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, about our movement. He has read all our books. Here are, you have shown all these books? So he appreciates, many gentlemen appreciate, even the priestly class, they also appreciate. So this is a movement which is trying to create at least a section to become first-class. The first-class man does not mean that he is nicely dressed or very rich or very opulent. Generally, of course, a first-class man means good parentage, good education, good looking and nicely rich. That is the standard. But... That may be first-class position, but first-class man is different. First-class man means he is self-controlled, in the mind he is undisturbed, he is truthful, he is very clean, inside and outside, he is very simple, tolerant, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge, and believe in God. This is first-class man. There is no mention that he is rich, he is beautiful, bodily, or he is educated. Educated, this is a result of education. Real education means that he is self controlled. Controlling the mind, controlling the senses, truthful. He will speak truth in any circumstances. Even to his enemy he will speak the truth. And clean, and very simple, tolerant. And any knowledge, he has got some, I mean to say, strength over it. Ultimate knowledge, Brahmān, he believes in that and he has... Brahma janātītī brāhmaṇaḥ, This is first-class man. So it is not expected that everyone will become first-class. but there must be a section in the society, ideal first-class. And they will be advisor to the rest. These brāhmaṇas, they will not take part in politics, but those who are politicians, administrators, they should take advice from these first-class men, how to rule, how to control, what is the ideal.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...happy that we're taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...brāhmaṇas. are sensing danger because they see that these Europeans are worshiping Deity, temple. Then gradually there will be no caste brāhmaṇa. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Mahāprabhu also had difficulty with the caste brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They complained to the magistrate that "What kind of religion He is introducing? It is not our Hindu religion. So chastise Him." (break) ...report of the brāhmaṇas, the police came and broke these drums. It was not the fault of the Mohammedans. The brāhmaṇas lodged complaint against Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he has to take step. They said, "It is not Hindu religion. They are disturbing God by chanting so loudly. (laughter) Now the God is sleeping and they are disturbing, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So stop this." So what can he do? After all, he is public servant. Therefore he took steps.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of here and there. You can become advanced in spiritual life anywhere if you follow the principles. That we are teaching. We are opening centers all over the world. You take the advantage of our teaching, our books, our center. Then it will be all right. They are following, these Europeans and American boys. They are young boys. They are giving up meat-eating. Do you give up meat-eating? Why Indians, you should learn meat-eating? They are giving up, and you are learning to eat meat. This is the lesson, that these foreigners, they were accustomed to eat meat from the childhood, they are giving up, and you are eating meat. This is the instruction. Indians are drinking. They are giving up drinking. The lessons are already there. There is no question why. The lessons are already there, books are already there, the centers are already there. You learn and make your life purified. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. When we say, "No meat-eating," it is meant for everyone. Anyone who wants to become first-class man, it is necessary for him. And there is no question of Indian, European, American. You are committing so many sinful lives, and you want to become happy—that is not possible.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened. That is explained,

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dormant in everyone's heart. So when he comes in contact with devotees, that is awakened. Just like to be attracted by a young girl or young boy, it is there in the child. That small child, it is there. And when he will be young, then it will be awakened. It is not that artificial something. So in association it is awakened. The potency is there already, but in good association, by hearing about Kṛṣṇa one is awakened to the status of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Society has lost this saṁskāra process; therefore they remain in the animal platform. Janman jāyate śūdra saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ. When a person is born even in human society, he remains a śūdra. Śūdra means almost like animal. Now he has to be reformed. That is called saṁskāra. Then twice-born. The first-class twice-born is brāhmaṇa. Second-class twice-born is kṣatriya. And third-class twice-born is the vaiśya. And remaining, who cannot be reformed, they remain śūdra. But there is cooperation between brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and the society makes progress simultaneously for everyone. That is human society. At the present moment mostly all of them remain śūdras or less..., caṇḍālas. So how there can be any peace? It is not possible. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, maybe a few vaiśyas only. They are also half-reformed. And European culture, that is caṇḍāla culture, yavana culture. There is no reformation, no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, simply śūdras and caṇḍālas mostly caṇḍālas. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is means for thoroughly overhauling the whole human society. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: You know him?

Kartikeya: No, we sometimes meet when we... Meetings are there.

Prabhupāda: We shall go or turn?

Harikeśa: Maybe we can go back to the park again.

Prabhupāda: In the European parks they do not allow to sit down on the grass. Do you know that?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In Paris I was trying to sit down on the grass floor. Immediately some policeman, "You cannot sit here." Bench. You can sit down on the bench. So here we think we can sit down little, eh?

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There? (break) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...tamarind tree?

Kartikeya: Acacia.

Prabhupāda: Acacia. Gum.

Kartikeya: Gum. These are like nimka.(?)

Prabhupāda: Tamarind.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Kartikeya: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "Yes, no, very good." You know this story, "Yes, no, very good"? No? There was one kansamar(?). So he was to go home, so he asked his friend that "So long I am not here, you serve European master." So he said, "I do not know English. How can I serve him?" "No, no, no. These three words will do: 'yes, no, very good.' " Then he was engaged. (laughs) Then one day from the master's room something was missing. So he asked the new servant, "You have taken it?" "Yes." (laughter) Then he asked him, "Return it." "No." (laughter) "Oh, then I shall hand you over to the police." "Very good." (laughter) Then when the police came, he was won..., "Sir, what is this? You have...?" "No, I do not know this." Then he was explained, that "I understand these three words only: 'yes, no, very good.' " That's all.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: They don't think there is need of husband. Eh? But they feel. That I know. I have seen one girl. She saw another friend, "Oh, she has got a husband," whispering. So I can understand that everyone aspires after husband, but there is no hope. Hopelessness. This is the position. Every woman wants a good husband, good home, good children, little ornaments, nice food. That is the ambition of every woman, but they are hopeless. Although they are well qualified, European, American girls, they are hopeless, not to get any husband, not to get any home. This is their position. I have studied thoroughly. Is it not?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hopelessness. When we see in our association all these girls. They are so nicely, well qualified. Whatever they are taught, they immediately pick up.

Kartikeya: In America they were asking my wife how Indian women are able to keep such devotion for their husbands. So they are actually very much interested and envious of this situation in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the nature. That is... They want to be a faithful wife, but there is no husband. Where to become faithful?

Harikeśa: So then they want to become liberated.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (1) (Indian man): Are you striving for peace in the world? Is it one of your goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is trying for peace in the world. I have already referred to the United Nations organization. They are also trying peace of the world. But one must know the right way how to bring peace in the world. So our proposition is that if you keep the human being as good as animal, then how there can be peace? There cannot be any peace among animal society. (aside:) Aiye. Let him... Jaya. This is our proposal. So we are bringing these Europeans, Americans, Africans, Canadians, Australians to this platform of understanding, that "We are human being; we are not animals." The... First I have already explained. So long we shall remain in the bodily concept of life, then we remain animal.

Guest (2) (Indian man): What was the necessity of creating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Prabhupāda: Necessity is that the human form of life is meant for advanced education. Unfortunately, they are being educated to live like animals. That is the mistake. So we want to correct this mistake.

Prabhupāda: Britishers were advertising outside India that "Indians are uncivilized. Therefore we are making them civilized. Therefore we should stay there. Don't object." Because United Nations, they were asking, "Why you are occupying India?" So they used to forward this argument, that "These people are uncivilized. We are making them civilized." (laughter) Now, how there should be Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose? Therefore they used to suppress always. Everything Indian wanted to do, they would suppress: big businesses, this mining... They would suppress. This Morarji, Sumati Morarji, her father-in-law started that... He had to face so many impediments from the Britishers to start the shipping company. Formerly there was no shipping company, Indian. Now, before that, there was shipping, not shipping company, but navigation was there from India to Rome, Greece, Turkey, there was regular business of spices and fine cloth. Later on, this large-scale shipping industry, that was done by the Europeans. So when Indian wanted to start, they would supress. The Tata iron industry, he had to face so many difficulties. Formerly, even if you wanted to bring some iron frame, it would come from Sheffield.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Greedy. Very greedy.

Brahmānanda: At one time all of Africa was controlled by the European nations. Completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mainly these French and...

Brahmānanda: French, British, Germans, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa, the British also tried to take over South Africa. There was a war called the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So during World War I and World War II many of the South Africans, they actually sided with the Germans because they were against the English so much.

Prabhupāda: African means black Africans. No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. South Africans, they were Europeans. The British started the first concentration camp. They took these "Afrikaners" as they call them, Europeans. They put them on an island called St. Helena. That was actually the first concentration camp, by the British.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Still, even the opposite party, they are not disgusted—"This material life is not very peaceful." They are not disgusted.

Prabhupāda: What is the doubt? Doubt means they cannot drink, they cannot continue slaughterhouse, they cannot continue brothels. That's all. This is their doubt, that "How these things will be maintained? This is our life." That is doubt, and that is the difficulty. As soon as we say, "No this," oh, they are in danger. Even Marquis of Zetland, "Oh, it is impossible to give up. This is our life." There is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. They cannot think of, especially the Westerners, that without these things one can live. So many, our disciples, left. Rāyarāma left: "Oh, Swamiji is denying the preliminary necessities of life." This is the preliminary necessities of life: illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. They cannot think that a man can live without these things. Therefore people are wonderful, that "How he is turning these Europeans, Americans to this standard?" That is their wonder. Nobody can think of, that these things can be given up and one can avoid it. It is dream. Your government, American government, is also surprised that "We have spent so much money for stopping this LSD, and this man by saying his disciples, they are giving up." Judah has also mentioned that. That is their surprise—"How these things can be given up? It is impossible."

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you become fanatical? (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Although it says in the Bible even that one should praise the Lord's name with cymbals and drums...

Prabhupāda: They have no concern with Bible and God and everything. They are simply after sense gratification. What is the use of quoting about Bible? They don't care for Bible. The Europeans, Americans, they have rejected, thrown away, kicked out Bible because (it is) unscientific. Actually they do not accept. Although they call themselves Christian, they do not accept anything of Bible. That is... Bible is finished. There is no meaning of Bible. Simply for their sectarian prestige, they say "Bible." But actually they have nothing to do with Bible. What do you think?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: They do not go to the church, but they come to us for arguing with Bible. Just see. What is the meaning? Their churches have closed, nobody goes, and they come to argue with us with Bible. That means "The Devil cites scripture." They are devils, and they are quoting from Bible.

Harikeśa: He was the one who said that the woman's brain is thirty-six ounces?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (chuckles) Yes. No, not only he, another professor, Dr. Stephen (indistinct), he also said. That's a fact. Artificially they are trying. It has no meaning. But by agitation you can do anything. That is another thing. But that is not the fact. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). These are all Indian quarters? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area? No, I think this is more European. But where we're staying is Indian area. It's all Indian.

Prabhupāda: These European professors, they had to learn Bengali. They knew Bengali. It was compulsory. All European officers who used to come to India for responsible post, it was obligated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they come mostly for missionary work? Was that their purpose?

Prabhupāda: Our professors, they came from missionary, but there were other officers in government service, I.C.S., Indian Civil Service. They were also. In the province where they were employed he must learn the provincial language. Their administration was excellent, undoubtedly, British administration. Nobody in the world, so far administration... But their crooked policy ruined them; otherwise good administrator, good politician, good diplomat.

Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European, the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's actually amazing how they colonized.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was actually amazing to think how they colonized almost...

Prabhupāda: They were obliged to do that. In the country there is no food, no shelter, nothing. Therefore Hitler's determination was, "I shall make this shopkeeper nation again fishers." What is called? Fishermen. "I shall ruin their empire." So he did it. But he also became ruined. He did it. He ruined the Englishmen, but he also became ruined, finished, Germany finished. But Germany will be able to rise again. Englishmen will not be able to.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They were making finer cloth by hand than the British were making by machines. So in order to discourage, they would cut off the thumb so they couldn't weave.

Prabhupāda: So many things. And to make a show, the Lord Hasting was impeached in the Parliament. Here the black men, they are Africans.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In this country there's nineteen million Africans and about over five million Europeans, about one million Indian people, and about one million colored people.

Prabhupāda: So these women, what they are carrying on the head?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. What do they carry, Gokulendra prabhu?

Gokulendra: They carry all sorts of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes they carry their supplies that they...

Prabhupāda: They are local women or...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But they don't allow the Africans to live in the cities. They have to travel long distances, unless they are servants at some house. For the Africans to live in the cities, they have passes. They have to have a pass.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Black men. The Indians, they cannot? They can?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Indians don't need pass.

Prabhupāda: ...appears it is very clean city.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area is downtown, it's not so clean. Downtown is not so clean. This area is.

Prabhupāda: This is residential or industrial?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Over here is all residential, European apartment houses. And along the beach there is all hotels. This is a very big resort area in South Africa. There's a... Whole south coast, going down for about eighty miles, is all resorts. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...English-made city?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Durban is English city. Capetown has Dutch influence.

Prabhupāda: It resembles Melbourne. Melbourne. Australian Melbourne, this quarter resembles. (break) ...from Indian Ocean?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Indian Ocean.

Prabhupāda: Africa, one side Atlantic, one side Indian. (break) ...is growing on the sand, and they say there is no life in the sand. (break—windy beach) ...Bhoga. Bhoga means sense gratification, and aiśvarya, opulence. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are lost of consciousness, such persons become attached to sense gratification and material opulence," bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, "and not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ: "How to become spiritually liberated, they do not care for it." These things do not interest them.