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Their argument is that Krsna consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple

Expressions researched:
"their argument is that Krsna consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: There's a theory of the psychologists that—in some ways it's similar to our idea—that people are conditioned, that according to their environment, according to their upbringing, according to their parentage and so on, they have a kind of way of acting and thinking. So their argument is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Condition. Still conditioned, but daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, under the spiritual nature. That is Mahātmā. Mahātmā is not independent. He is also conditioned. So first of all, we must understand that our natural position is to be conditioned. Now, why, where I shall be conditioned? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You condition here. "You become conditioned by Me. Then you will be happy." Those who are thinking that "We shall not be conditioned," they are still in māyā. You cannot be without condition.

nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām
eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān
(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)

So that one God is supplying the necessities of life. That is His condition. Suppose you are giving me all necessities of life. Then it is, the best part of my valor is to live under your control. That's all. I cannot be independent. It is not possible. That is the wrong philosophy, that these rascals are thinking of complete independence. That means they are becoming more and more conditioned by this material external energy.

Yogeśvara: Their program is that if a child's problems come from the wrong kind of conditioning, then he should be given the opportunity in childhood of a good family, good education, and so on, and that way there won't be bad reaction later on in life.

Prabhupāda: That means he should be given chance for better conditioning. Conditioning must go on. It cannot be said that "Let the child be given freedom." No.

Yogeśvara: Yeah, that's what they say. They say it's freedom when there is a lack of bad conditioning.

Prabhupāda: That is... Bad condition is good conditioning. Where is freedom? From bad conditioning you are suggesting good conditioning. That is not freedom. Just like you are in the prison house, you are badly conditioned, but the so-called freedom—you are still conditioned under the laws of the state. You are not free. But from bad conditioning to good conditioning. And if you obey the state laws, then you are good citizen. But you are conditioned. How you think of freedom? That is your foolishness. Just like a servant. He is in some mercantile firm. He is trying to seek out some government service. But he cannot be free.

Yogeśvara: So in other words, they would say your idea is to give them a better conditioning.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, not better conditioning. You must know what is the best condition and take that condition. The best condition is to be under the control of Kṛṣṇa. That is your best first-class way.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You said that in the Bhagavad-gītā when it speaks of being desireless, it means that actually one is desiring for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "I don't want this." "Don't want, don't want, don't want" does not mean he becomes negative. "I want Kṛṣṇa. So many things, 'Don't want,' but actually I want Kṛṣṇa. And that is my life." And not that "Don't want, don't want, don't want, then become zero." Not that.

Yogeśvara: No, they also say we know what we want. We want food for everyone, we want...

Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know. Therefore he is changing from this place to that place. He does not know. If he had known, then he would have surrendered immediately to Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. He does not know.

Yogeśvara: But the idea is "We can accomplish the same good results even without Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: That he does not know. He is a fool. He does not know what is a good result. He will change again. He is a rascal. He is putting himself in this condition; again he'll desire another condition. That is the change of body. That is his wanting. Sometimes he's taking the body of a dog, sometimes he is taking the body of a demigod. Bhramatam upary adhaḥ (1.5.18). Down, just like, what is that? Merry-go-round.

Page Title:Their argument is that Krsna consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas
Created:25 of Jun, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=1, Let=0
No. of Quotes:1